Im doing research for now, and I'm debating between either doing a K series 280whp goal or a GTS motor 250whp on n/a, so who's all doing n/a and whats the highest whp u've gotten to...all the Information well help me a lot so I can reach my goals with the GTS motor if n e one would be intrested in doing the samething Im doing when I get done with the motor.

250 NA GTS, LMFAO. When pigs fly!!!

I love noobs so much, my favorite members!

Yeah, maybe at the flywheel, but you'll be really pressed for cash after trying to get your car that powerful.

250,,, thats a pretty high number budd

250... n/a interesting

I'm being serious here..why must somebody be a "noob" if they wanna get information so they can get a project started...I have a theory that i've been studying, but I'm trying to find people's setups and dyno's so I know where to start from there.

K-Series.

You have no chance of getting that goal with the 2ZZ. No way.

with f/i, a memeber has gotten 304 to the wheels on his
GT-T.

+1 for the K-Series.

You know, you can't bore an extra 2 liters out of the GTS engine...

Don't even get me started...
You're doing just fine Kenred and you're ok for bringing up the possible. I just hope you have a lot of cash.

Has anyone heard of sleeving a block and increasing the stroke (not the bore)? Has anyone heard of using TechLineCoatings to coat just about every single internal piece of the engine with just the right kind of coat (there are different kinds)? Has anyone heard of custom parts being made? Does anyone realize that VVTL-i is superior to the VTEC 1.8 L's in the NRHA Sport Compant All-Motor class currently pushing 300+ whp (and doing 10 s in the qtr)? I'm being sarcastic if you don't realize this. Only those incognizant (look it up) of excellence would make the flagrant statement that what Kenred brought up is not feasible. In all aspects of life, ignorant people like most of you is what separates me and a few others from the masses. Thank you.

You'll do well Kenred.

^^^QTRMRL_1 know's his shit. I wouldn't drop a K series engine in my celica. Leave that for the 7thgen civics and definatly the RSXS, Civic Si, and the Acura TSX.

sarcasm is the best

I beleive 250 WHP NA is completely possibly on a 2ZZ with deep pockets. Sure it will only run on 110 - 115 octane gas, but it is possible or higher. TRD has the specs for the engine parts in titanium if any one is that serious. Connecting rods in titanium if I remember and more. Go 2.0 liters 15 to 1 compression w/ a lot of other work. Remember for an engine like that every part and ever single HP adds up. TRD will build it if you have the money and are a serious racer.

Is he going to have gas shipped to him from overseas?

that sure would be fast tho wouldnt it?

i think its possible.
when i was talking to mike(lucky)and he was saying that he is about pushing 190 to the wheels with his power fc, Intake, and exhaust. And he said that he could go up to 200, if he had more time on dyno.
So lets say he has 200, with these mods.
and you add
-trial 2000cc stroker kit(supposely 20 hp to the wheels)
-trd flywheel(5-10% more hp transfer to the wheels)
-dc headers(5 hp to the wheels)
-euroversion corolla gts Intake manifold(about 5 whp)
-pulley(1-2 hp to the wheels)
-trd pistons(i dunno know how much but im prety sure its around 5-10 hp tot he wheels

when when you add all these up, its about 40 hp to the wheels. plus whatever mike has which is 200 = 240 hp to the wheels. ITs very possible. Not to mention, when you add more parts to your car, the more you get the more hp you get out of.

i personally know a guy with GT vvt-i engine. And he took it to gude racing and bored out stroker kit and some other stuff, he is pushing about 190 the the wheels. with out powerfc

^^ If the guy can afford that car, he can afford the gas. If he can afford that car, he can afford to have several other daily drivers. 100 octane which a lot of racers use only cost $4.00/gallon, not much considering the ever rising price of premium fuel. Methanol which he might use only costs $10/gallon. Sure he can drive it on the street (in the dead of night). And I hope he does b/c I'd love to see the cops try to catch that car! LOL!

daaammmnnnn

yep sure its possible, just like someone said above..look at 1.8s running 300+ whp at the track..but you gotta realize that even though you reach that high of horsepower N/A, your car will probably not be streetable.

just wait until cams are released for the gts...THEN continue this conversation. lucky_317 is already running mid 13s on 180-ish whp, just imagine what cams would do

yeah i believe its possible too. btw getting new lifters adds a considerable amount of hp in GTS's. im sure it can be done. but hey why not just get a 75 shot of nitrous?

for the $$ needed on the 2zz why not just get the 3 and go F/I Not only that but you could maybe even squeeze a lil more out of that engine. 250whp would be a tall order for the 2zz but with the $$ it's possible... I suppose I just don't see why you wouldn't just do an engine swap. Fuck it, do a custom fab and throw in a supra engine if you've got the $$.

I don't get what the big deal about staying N/A is.

It'd be easy to do this going F/I. Cheaper, easier, and more reliable...

I have a GT with the 11:1 internals in it, and its a hell of a lot stronger than the stock GT, but no where near the 200 WHP mark...that much I can tell you...HP = money, and unless you are getting money back by racing in a class or circuit, then I don't see what the need for putting 20 grand into an engine to get 250 NA WHP to a 2zz would be...but dont let anyone slow you down bro...if you really want the help, then keep asking, and we'll supply you with the websites

Hey man, I've been researching parts and information and building NA motors for a long time. You are obviously getting yourself into an expensive long project, and also dont try to get in over your head(been there done that), aim for 200whp first and go from there

200 whp isn't that hard with the right combination of parts.

a member on another celica board has already dynoed 193whp n/a.

250 (wheel hp) however would be extremely tough and would make for one of the most efficient 1.8's built (asuming you can do it with 1.8 litres)

things to look into having done.

Headwork(oversized titanium valves, custom titanium springs and rocker arms, custom one off camshafts, custom adjustable exhaust cam gear, port and polish)

Custom 4-2-1 race header with no cat
Custom Individual throttle body set up with speed density sensor and custom Intake air temp sensor (trash the mass airflow meter) with velocity stacks.
Custom EMS(one hasn't been built to run speed density on the 2zz although rumor is aem is working on a standalone)

resleve and stroke the engine to 1.93 litres (gt crankshaft)
move the pin further up into the pistion to creat the optimum rod/stroke ratio for high rpm reving (9500+)
custom connecting rods, custom pistons (13-1)

BOAT LOADS OF TUNING, and 100 + octaine gasoline, and I could see getting "close" to 250whp, it wont be streetable, and would need to be towed to every destination.

^^^^^ yeah, as illusive said...its do-able but now streetable and probably not really worth the cash in the end unless you are racing in a championhship

good luck and have fun.
and i hope you try and do it

I was thinking of boring my engine to a 2.0 and getting a Turbo. any ideas or comments?

Ive got a GT w/ a t3-t4 hybrid Turbo and I was at 304whp but my last dyno run was at 318 @ 16 lbs of boost. I would go F/I if you are looking at numbers higher than 220whp. It would cost you more than 2x as much to reach 300whp with N/A than F/I IMO. But I would run a 1zz, you dont have to worry about sleeving it or the big bore kit either,, as far as bottom end just need MWR Crower rods and MWR Weisco Pistons and an oringed block...

Dummy's, you can get 250 N/A from the 2ZZ, I would do the trial 3zz stroker kit, with their 13.7:1 pistons and a very aggressive fuel map with some alcohol injection on top of the 104 octane you would want to run.

Not to say what he posted was wrong, but with the research I've done I would do a few things differently.


Titanium valves are not needed, they will work well for short periods of time but they are so hard it will wear out your valve seat on your aluminum casting very quickly especially paired with a high spring rate on the valvesprings, SS usually work very well and if you want to get a little more out of them you can put a head coating on the combustion side and have the inner side swirl polished or get flow coatings. If you can find titanium rocker arms for your car you would be extremely lucky and that would definitely be the way to go with that, if not you can have them lightened. You want to use the lowest valvespring rate that you can with your desired rpm for prolonged valve seat life.

You could link up a MAP sensor to ITBs and run an AEM ECU made for a different car (the AEM allows you to manipulate sensor voltage ranges)

You might want to see if you can get a custom 4-1 header made for some serious top end power. Possible Steve Brown, or maybe Burns Headers, or Hytech Exhaust.

I dont think its actually worth the trouble of changing your R\S ratio, depending on what it is now. Piston speed is the main factor in determining how high your engine can rev to(Keep this in mind when looking at stroker kits). However with low R\S ratio you have higher piston speeds in the upper 180 around TDC, this creats a greater vacuum on in the Intake cycle and gives more torque, however in higher RPM the piston speed begins to outrun the flame front resulting in your power dropping off. Unless your R\S ratio is very low I dont think it is worth the trouble.

You really dont want your piston speed to be above 27 meters/s

What's N/A and f/i?

i am going to beat you

just kidding N/A is all bolt on..exhaust, Intake, headers...yada yada, F/I is forced induction

Naturally Aspirated
and Forced Induction (turbo, nitrous, supercharger)

Exhaust, Turbocharger, custom headers, Power FC, bore and stroke, new pistons, plugs, etc would be my best bet. Lose ALOT of weight. (AC removed, carbon fiber everything, back seat out, passenger seat out, smaller rims)

250 whp on N/A??? You got that kind of money? Buy a Porsche.

The one thing about high rpm reving (since no one has gone there in a 2zz), is valve train weight, and the vvtl-i system is ungodly heavy, which will hamper its power making and reliability issues over 9K (which no one has been able to make n/a power past 8200 rpms)

Idealy you would want to trash the whole lift mechanisim, for a single cam lobe to lighten up the weight, since titanium valves would be conciderabley lighter (and custom rocker arms & springs) this would help to solve some of the high rpm problems you run into at 9500+

the lift cam is large enough to make power that high, but nothing wrong with a lil more duration...


if your not going to run the stroker kits then no theres really no need for it, however, i said run the gt crank for the 92 mm stroke to effectively increase its displacement, however the gt con rod stroke wasn't designed for high rpm's which is why you would need to change the r/s ratio when you run the stroker kits, hondas have had the same problems with ls-v's for years, and its even worse with a b20 vtec.

theres a reason why trial didn't run their car past 8K on their dynos because they didn't bother researching into the r/s ratio and trying to match or exceed the gts's for higher rpm reving,

with itb's you need revs' you wont get it with the standard stroker kit, the engine will fall on its face around 8K.

Thats what I'm saying