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Specialist 2002 Toyota Celica
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I did not at any time align myself with fallacious statements made by other parties. You cannot keep straight who said what. My statements were qualified and correct within themselves. But you being confused, write this insulting statement directed at me: "^^ Well keep staring at that picture, it's the only form of support your going to get. " Thus my calling your statement pointless. And when you persist in your ignorance, I say you lack sophistication. Yes, colloquially the equivalent would be "stupid." For your own good, realize where you are lacking, or you won't excel in life.
I get my kicks on EC.
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Way to bust out the dictionary for that post. Im done with this argument, why do people feel they need to put 20 minutes into a damn post on a celica web site so they sound super smart on the internet. What I am "lacking" is the patience and time for this. If I wanted to sound sophisticated, I would do it for something that mattered, not some 26 year old who wants to think his gts is a racecar.
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Specialist 2002 Toyota Celica
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dictionary? you mean writing normally? what big words did I use?
Not about sounding "super smart":
Don't go around insulting the wrong people if you don't want to get stuffed. Bottom Line.
I get my kicks on EC.
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Yeah sorry but if your using "colloquially" in daily conversation then your kind of . I'll keep that in mind next time, last thing I would want is to make someone feel proud that they "stuffed" someone ten years younger than them.
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Specialist 2002 Toyota Celica
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Age doesn't matter. If you're going to talk with adults or insult adults, you better believe they will use the langauge they are accustomed to using with other adults. I did not know your age until you informed me. Age doesn't matter. You can be ignorant at any age.
I get my kicks on EC.
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Senior Member 2001 Toyota Celica
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Enzo Ferrari " You may be a Ferrari owner; but, you may not necessarly be a Ferrari Driver."
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^^ To be back on topic, RWD is better than FWD, in anything. While it is also true that there are some FWDs that can hang with the RWD cars. RWD will always dominate FWD in racing. End of story.
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Specialist 2002 Toyota Celica
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I'm ready as soon as there are competent people to discuss the topic.
I get my kicks on EC.
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Specialist 2002 Toyota Celica
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^^ To be back on topic, RWD is better than FWD, in anything. While it is also true that there are some FWDs that can hang with the RWD cars. RWD will always dominate FWD in racing. End of story.
I get my kicks on EC.
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Specialist 2003 Toyota Celica
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what? it's over???
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Cold Warrior 2004 Toyota Celica GTS
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Cold Warrior
2004 Toyota Celica GTS
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There are sooo many reasons why RWD is better than FWD. The only reasons FWD exists are 1) people can't drive in bad weather 2) it's cheaper to produce. As people have said, you can only deliver so much power to the front wheels. Because of the dynamics of weight shift during launch, RWD cars are infinitely better designed for drag racing. In terms of turns, again RWD wins. When you turn, you're moving the front tires in a different direction. When you do this with tons of power going to them, it's very easy to either break the wheels loose. No serious racer would EVER consider FWD superior. Outside of racing, however, there are plenty of good reasons for FWD. For everyday driving, I'll take FWD every time.
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Cold Warrior 2004 Toyota Celica GTS
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Cold Warrior
2004 Toyota Celica GTS
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RWD... Should there even be a duscussion on this for performance. Most cars in this country were RWD before early 1990's or even later. FWD... Came because the biggest car market is in the US and dumb mothers that can't drive in the snow in the U.S.A without help of a salt/sand plow can realy depend on a FWD car where the emphasis is on trucks with their 4X4 is enormous so begins the FWD. I could be way off. RWD was widespread only because RWD was cheaper/easier to engineer, and Detriot has always been very lazy about innovation. As the sophistication of vehicles has increased, FWD has become more widespread, mostly due to influence of imports. Detriot has reluctantly followed along, as they still tend to do. Unless you're racing, you don't need 300+ HP, and FWD just plain makes more sense. FWD has nothing to do with "dumb mothers that can't drive in the snow." I've driven plenty of RWD on ice and snow, as has my wife, and can easily handle either. On balance though, I prefere to drive FWD.
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Senior Member 2001 Toyota Celica
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FWD has become more widespread becaue its cheaper to produce, not becaue its engineered better. RWD is still more technologically advanced. US market followed into the import driven FWD market because of its "reknowned" traction and safety due to the main fact that it was a business move. BTW, how often does it snow in Tempe??
Enzo Ferrari " You may be a Ferrari owner; but, you may not necessarly be a Ferrari Driver."
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Cold Warrior 2004 Toyota Celica GTS
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Cold Warrior
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QTRMLR, that's only one example. ONE. Still total domination if you ask me. pretty cool find though. Is this a tuner sponsered race? It might be cheaper to produce NOW, but it was quite a jump for the carmakers to adapt to when it was first introduced. I grew up in Colorado, remember, and have lived and driven there quite a few more years than you have, with both FWD and RWD. As I said, unless I'm racing, I'll take FWD every time.
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Masta OC 2003 Toyota Celica
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Masta OC
2003 Toyota Celica
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There was a great article in one of the major car magazines last year. Basically, it said that FWD's advantages on poor road conditions are becoming fewer and fewer. With all of the new traction control features being developed and implimented on cars, soon RWD cars will be just as easy to control in rain or snow.
I'm just a crosshair I'm just a shot away from you
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Senior Member 2001 Toyota Celica GT
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How intrusive are those traction control features going to be though? i.e. Are they a tool to assist the driver or will they end up taking too much control away from the driver? BTW, how often does it snow in Tempe?? Actually, we've had snow falling in Phoenix twice in the past five years And let me tell you, when it finally does rain here there's usually about three months worth of oil and dirt built up on the road, and it can get awfully slick.
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Masta OC 2003 Toyota Celica
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Masta OC
2003 Toyota Celica
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I hope the new traction control features will be simliar to what the IS300 has. Traction control is automatically on, but you can turn it totally off with a button on the dash. Also, there is a snow mode button that makes the traction control more more intrusive, but is a blessing in poor weather.
I'm just a crosshair I'm just a shot away from you
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Member 1995 Toyota Celica SX
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Member
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Id have to agre Exnihilo, everyday driving for me would have to be the FWD. If you wanna drive fast, you can still with a FWD on normal roads. Its notlike ud want to be ripping down the street at 240 kms. Anyway you shouldnt be speeding excessively in the first place. Basically FWD is prtty much equal to a RWD in normal driving, if ur driving sensibly
When I find myself in a position like this, I ask myself what would General Motors do? And then I do the opposite!
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ECelica Staff 2001 Toyota Celica GTS
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ECelica Staff
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Wasn't FWD designed for economic purposes instead of performance purposes?
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Senior Member 2001 Toyota Celica
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Enzo Ferrari " You may be a Ferrari owner; but, you may not necessarly be a Ferrari Driver."
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Member 2000 Toyota Celica
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so does that mean the 240sx is faster than gts in turns?
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Senior Member 2001 Toyota Celica
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That's using a specific example. GTS is the one of the few FWD with tremendous handling capabilities.
Enzo Ferrari " You may be a Ferrari owner; but, you may not necessarly be a Ferrari Driver."
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Member 2004 Audi A4
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All wheel drive> the both of those
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ECelica Staff 2001 Toyota Celica GTS
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ECelica Staff
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Each type of drivetrain has its advantages and disadvantages. I rather have a RWD drivetrain over FWD and AWD. All wheel drive> the both of those
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Member 2004 Audi A4
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I am just stating my opinion, you really don't have to get all defensive.
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Senior Member 2001 Toyota Celica
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AWD is not better than RWD. It's only advantage is on the launch, but from there, the weight and drivetrain loss hands the win to RWD. AWD understeers, whereas RWD oversteers.
Enzo Ferrari " You may be a Ferrari owner; but, you may not necessarly be a Ferrari Driver."
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I live in Illinois buddy, and travel to Minnesota and Virginia alot.. imho awd is just plain better and safer...
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Cold Warrior 2004 Toyota Celica GTS
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That's using a specific example. GTS is the one of the few FWD with tremendous handling capabilities. The worst handling FWD car I've owned still handled better than the best handling RWD car I've had. But hey, you're entitled to your opinion.
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Specialist 2002 Toyota Celica
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I've got a question to spark more discussion:
Would you rank the results of a national motorsport series and championship that consumes an entire continent as a validation of the superiority of either FWD or RWD?
Yes or No? Simple question. There is a point.
I get my kicks on EC.
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Specialist 2002 Toyota Celica GT
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El Guapo 1997 Nissan 240SX
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yes but only if its NASCAR. HAHA your point now sux
Touge Knights - Canyon Driving Team!
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Specialist 2002 Toyota Celica
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You don't know my point. Sorry if you feel like NASCAR is the only legitimate race series and championship (yes technically Busch, NEXTEL Cup, Winston Cup etc, but you said NASCAR). Keep guessing, mindreader.
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Senior Member 2001 Toyota Celica
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NASCAR- REdnecks racing around a circle. Sooooo lame.
Le Mans, World Rally...etc, those are underappreciated.
Enzo Ferrari " You may be a Ferrari owner; but, you may not necessarly be a Ferrari Driver."
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FWD 1995 Toyota Celica
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FWD
1995 Toyota Celica
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I've got a question to spark more discussion:
Would you rank the results of a national motorsport series and championship that consumes an entire continent as a validation of the superiority of either FWD or RWD?
Yes or No? Simple question. There is a point. im go out on a limb and say dakar rally?
Last edited by RedSunCelica; Dec 16, 2004 10:47pm.
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Specialist 2002 Toyota Celica
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Specialist
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I've got a question to spark more discussion:
Would you rank the results of a national motorsport series and championship that consumes an entire continent as a validation of the superiority of either FWD or RWD?
Yes or No? Simple question. There is a point. im go out on a limb and say dakar rally? ah. interesting. and I think I know what you are thinking, and I agree, but that's not my point. you make a great point. aren't mind games great? BTW, I'll give my answer as soon as enough people answer YES or NO.
I get my kicks on EC.
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Specialist 2002 Toyota Celica
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I will make my question more specific to perhaps make it easier to answer. My point remains the same.
If one drive system dominates a national motorsport series and championship that consumes an entire continent, would you rank those results as a validation of the superiority of either FWD or RWD or AWD in at least that type of racing?
Yes or No?
No insults or guesses. Just answer. Then I will answer. Then we shall "discuss".
Last edited by QTRMLR_1; Dec 17, 2004 12:50am.
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there is this one 1/4 calculater i seen on a site and if i put in awd it was faster than rwd and fwd-then rwd was faster than fwd---does that help
respect the gt-s
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That doesn't help you. I think you'll learn a lot if you read badceli's "400 hp V8 vs 400 hp 4 cylinder" thread in the Power and Performance Tuning forum.
Simple question.
hmmmm...I wonder why some people are so hesitant to answer something they would otherwise swear by: "x drive system is better than y because it kicks y.butt in national competition."
Show some guts people.
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FWD 1995 Toyota Celica
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well ill say no. and explain my answer later.
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Senior Member 2001 Toyota Celica
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Well, you've asked a rigged question. In general, I'd say RWD dominates. However, if you wanna talk Rally, it goes AWD. So, my answer is that RWD does dominate. YES
Enzo Ferrari " You may be a Ferrari owner; but, you may not necessarly be a Ferrari Driver."
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Senior Member 2001 Toyota Celica
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Well, you've asked a rigged question. In general, I'd say RWD dominates. However, if you wanna talk Rally, it goes AWD. So, my answer is that RWD does dominate. YES
BTW, reason why people haven't answered is because they don't know.
Enzo Ferrari " You may be a Ferrari owner; but, you may not necessarly be a Ferrari Driver."
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There are some who would waffle and would amend their statements to suit the situation. I ask not to deceive or rig: I ask my question to force people to commit. You admit that AWD dominates in rally. I agree. But that is still not my point. The purpose of this thread was to discuss the benefits/advantage of either FWD or RWD. This can apply to non-racing activites or racing activities, and that is what we shall continue to discuss IF you answer the question. The question WHICH YOU AMENDED was not whether RWD dominates in general in racing. Originally posted by jyboygenius: So, my answer is that RWD does dominate. YES Go back a page if you don't remember what my question is. Only one person has answered the question thus far. It is not a fill in the blank where you know or not. Not knowing is no excuse. It is yes or no. One has to make a choice if we are to have a basis for discussion, without allowing some individuals to get away with being logically inconsistent. Judging from all of the prior posts, I'd say there are enough people with opinions on this site lol. Let's hear them on this question.
I get my kicks on EC.
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Senior Member 2001 Toyota Celica
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Enzo Ferrari " You may be a Ferrari owner; but, you may not necessarly be a Ferrari Driver."
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Specialist 2002 Toyota Celica
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I get my kicks on EC.
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Specialist 2002 Toyota Celica GT
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Come on Mike...How many people need to answer before we get to hear what you gou got? I want to hear it. Just tell us, then we can argue with you. We can help you get ready for that job as a lawyer that you want.
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Specialist 2002 Toyota Celica
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One guy is not worth it. It's no fun if it's not a big battle. I want all of the RWD fans to respond.
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Senior Member 2001 Toyota Celica
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^^You've come to the wrong place amigo...
Enzo Ferrari " You may be a Ferrari owner; but, you may not necessarly be a Ferrari Driver."
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Specialist 2002 Toyota Celica GT
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I don't think too many people are still interested in this old thread. How about if jyboygenius and I just argue with you a whole bunch?
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Specialist 2002 Toyota Celica
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Not that one should argue for the sake of it. There are just too many ignorant people who think they are right. My cause is to know what is right and enlighten the ignorant who just spread ignorance to others like a disease.
I don't think it will take much stir people up. I'll just start another thread.
I get my kicks on EC.
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Specialist
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Where I live, people with RWD drive sports cars like rustangs have to have two cars, one for winter & one for summer. I'd like to see you do this with a rustang in a blizzard:
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Thank you.: me, myself, and I...! Random: a bowl of rice, fried chicken, and a glass of water!
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