Celica Forums General Discussion General FWD vs RWD

what r the advantages and disadvantages of the two, and overall which is better.

Its really up to the driver and what he intends to do with the car. If you have a real wheel drive its much easier to drift. If you have a front wheel drive, in most cases you will have the lead off the start of a race. Front wheel drives for the most part have very good handling. Theres a lot more advantages and disadvantages of both though...I just named a few

but i hear FWD,s understeer a bit, so i guess you have to be a good driver on the track to balance out the turns. Also FWD's have a lot more stress placed on the steering and front wheels so it needs more servicing.

well thats wat ive heard anyway, correct me if im wrong.

FW pells car, RW pushes car.

^^ yeah causing understeer and over steer. in more practical ways fwd is better for traction in rain ice snow ect. rwd spins out easy on ice in water ect. fwd looses less horsepower in the transfer to the wheels. rwd is better in accelerating being when you go weight shifts to the back of the car.

RWD take off is a bit faster than FWD...

U mean FW pulls car right? if pell means nething, you gotta tell me wat it is lol

neway, wat would make a better lap time out of the 2?

^

Kinda depends on the turns and how the track is constructed. With a lot of longer stretches the RW will most likely win, on a track with lots and lots of turns the FD will most likely win

on a striaght ahead zip, RWD owns. look at the z, s2k, rx8, vette, rustang, camaro, why aren't they FWD???

ok

between FWD and RWD, RWD can pull on FWD. the best take off is still by AWD...

I personally stick with FWD. You can take turns a lot faster and your rear doesn't slide away as much as it would a RWD. That's why most drift cars are RWD, the ass end slides out a lot easier. To drift a FWD, you have to E-brake it a lot! IMO, FWD will scream off the line ahead of the RWD because of the pressure on the front tires from engine weight, RWD is more likely to spin with less weight bearing on them before catching and throwing the weight of the car back on them. I guess we could argue this all day!! As far as servicing the two, they're pretty even. Just different areas, front or back? My personal preferance is FWD. I like the handling a lot better.

someone please handle this one

NASCAR, Indy, and F1 all use RWD. Pretty much every type of racing except rally will use RWD (rally uses AWD).

From a launch in a straight line race, all the weight from the car is shifted to the rear. If you're FWD that means there is less weight on the front then at a constant speed. By the laws of friction, less force on an object equals less friction, and it is very easy to spin a powerful FWD on a launch. Conversely, if you're RWD, more weight is shifted to the rear, and by the same laws of friction you will increase friction to the tires. More friction will allow you to apply more power before the wheels spin.

For a twisty track, you need to understand how understeer and oversteer affect your intended line. Understeer means your car doesn't steer as far as you intend to and tends to go in a straight line. Oversteer means the car steers too far. Understeer will almost always pull you off your intended line. The only way to correct understeer is to let off the gas, wait for the car to regain grip, and then get yourself back on to your line, or you can not turn the steering wheel so far (which will result in you going towards the end of the track, requiring you to use your brakes, etc.). Oversteer, on the other hand, can also be corrected by letting off the gas, but you can also correct it by turning the steering wheel the other way, and done properly you won't get off your intended line. Ideally in a race you would have neither oversteer nor understeer, but if you would want to have one over the other you'd want oversteer.

The main advantage for FWD is for easy driving. Oversteer requires quite a bit of driving skill to safely handle, while understeer is a bit simpler. In bad weather I'd hate to be in a RWD, because it's very easy to fishtail, and in the extreme you'd end up doing 360s on ice with no way to control it. FWD is better for those conditions because of the intuitiveness of the controls: car turns left, turn back to the right.

As ragingpaseo mentioned, allo the major sports cars use RWD. Do you think Michael Schumacher would use RWD if he knew FWD would be better handling?

"Knuckles, take care of this, will ya?"
"Yes Boss, with pleasure."

Man why do so many people say FWD is better than RWD in take-off I mean isnt it easier to push than to pull RWD=push...FWD=pull...sooo IMO RWD is faster in take off, that is if you dont spend most of your time peeling out

rwd>fwd except for in the snow... assuming the RWD is a FR.

u can have pretty much as much hp as you want on a rwd. a front drive is pretty limited to 300. rwd axles are hella stronger

There are sooo many reasons why RWD is better than FWD. The only reasons FWD exists are 1) people can't drive in bad weather 2) it's cheaper to produce.

As people have said, you can only deliver so much power to the front wheels. Because of the dynamics of weight shift during launch, RWD cars are infinitely better designed for drag racing. In terms of turns, again RWD wins. When you turn, you're moving the front tires in a different direction. When you do this with tons of power going to them, it's very easy to either break the wheels loose.

No serious racer would EVER consider FWD superior.

I want an all wheel drive, like the 1995 GT4 Celica

There is a shop Florida working on an AWD conversion for our car. Can't wait.

oh damnnn thats gona cost lots wooooooooot can't wait either, do tell more, PM me.

In racing, there are no advantages of FWD. The only reason why automakers use FWD is because it's cheaper and "safer". You run into torque steer with FWD ALL THE TIME. That's my biggest problem. You can't fishtail, you "fishhead". WHen a RWD accelerates hard, it gains about 30% more traction, on the same token, FWD loses about 30% of its traction. Another advantage is off the immediate start, FWD has less drive line power loss than RWD. However, it all reverses as soon as the cars start moving. In terms of handling, RWD is also better. The weight setup allows for more hard handling. They tend to be set at 50/50 or something more biased towards the rear. Then there's the whole understeer/oversteer issue to deal with. You will never see a supercar or serious performance vehicle with FWD, they're all RWD, except Lamborghini, which uses AWD.

Does that answer your questions?

Like Revmonster said, anyone who thinks FWD is superior is the true ricer/dumbass.

When it comes down to this subject AWD is better.

I agree that serious race cars are RWD.

But this doesn't mean that RWD will always dominate FWD on a track:

There is at least one FWD car that can hold its own on a road track:

"Hotchkis/Raybestos STS Celica Wins in Pennsylvania"

June 6, 2004 Wampum, PA.
The Hotchkis Tuning/Raybestos STS Toyota Celica finished first in the National Autosports Association Super Unlimited class at BeaveRun Motorsports Complex. The Celica driven by John Hotchkis started second, battled with a very strong Audi for five laps and then gained the lead and maintained it throughout the 30 minute race. With 35 cars, including Audi, BMW, Mazda, and VW taking the green flag, the action was non-stop for the Celica. "Throughout the weekend we had the gamut of track conditions, from full wet, drizzle, to dry, and the Celica preformed flawlessly, regardless of the weather, on the demanding 1.5 mile track," exclaimed John Hotchkis. "StopTech came through for us big time by sending overnight new StopTech/TRD calipers that improved our brake balance. This in combination with new Raybestos pad compounds gave our Celica amazing stopping power", remarked Hotchkis. Hotchkis Tuning would like to thank our fantastic sponsors. This project would not be possible without their generous support. Raybestos, Toyota Motor Sales, Toyota Racing Developments, Motor Sports Technical Center, Molly Design, Red Line Oil, Magnuson Products, The Tire Rack, Fluidyne, Aasco, Performance, Centerforce, Autometer, Hillco, Denso, Sparco, Magnaflow, APR, MoTec, and Optima.
For more information, please contact: Hotchkis Tuning www.hotchkistuning.com [hotchkistuning.com] 562-907-7757


article taken from: (plus pics)
http://www.hotchkistuning.com/bin/misc_pages/Celica%20Extreme.htm

A picture is worth...

Thanx a lot for all ur responses!!!

QTRMLR, that's only one example. ONE. Still total domination if you ask me. pretty cool find though. Is this a tuner sponsered race?

and everyone was clowning on me!! Probably still will!!

no kidding. didn't I say that? Yes, ONE. What are you trying to say? ^^Thanks. I don't know if that's a tuner sponsored race, though it's certainly not just any "amateur" race. I knew someone would be proud of the Celica. If you're going to be "stuck" with FWD, the one to have is the Celica.

although I can't back this up (maybe someone else can), I believe another FWD car that can compete on a road course is the Integra Type R, but the Celica still owns that.

^^ ITR > Celica

boy you were certainly trying to draw FWD fans in and bash them down. Sorry I didn't disagree and say FWD is better. I know that RWD dominates. When I said something that you thought slightly questioned you, you go say "that's only one example."

my example was meant to inform. Just because RWD dominates, there are still special FWD cars, and don't count them out.

^^ not the Hotchkis Celica.

^^
CRX with Enzo engine swap > ITR

^^ Im not talking about tuned cars, anything is possible there.

I am and have been talking about tuned cars. Those RWD cars like the Audi mentioned in the article, and that Miata and RX-7 (you see lagging behind the Celica), are tuned cars in that race.

that's funny. a huge ass V12 trying to get stuffed into a CRX.

^^ Well keep staring at that picture, it's the only form of support your going to get.

RWD... Should there even be a duscussion on this for performance. Most cars in this country were RWD before early 1990's or even later.
FWD... Came because the biggest car market is in the US and dumb mothers that can't drive in the snow in the U.S.A without help of a salt/sand plow can realy depend on a FWD car where the emphasis is on trucks with their 4X4 is enormous so begins the FWD.
I could be way off.

BReakinDrifts:

"^^ Well keep staring at that picture, it's the only form of support your going to get."


That was a pointless comment. Did I ask for support? You apparently don't have the sophistication to understand what I am saying. I didn't say "agree with". I am saying you cannot comprehend my statement. Can you understand that?

BTW ^^ learn how to differentiate between "you're" and "your".

i c...

Sophistication. All I was trying to say is that when you are talking about fully tuned vehicles, anything is possible and it is just pointless to argue about which car would be better and why. There could be many factors to why that Miata and Rx-7 are lagging behind in that picture. If it happened consistently then you would have an argument. Meanwhile, RWD is always owning FWD cars.
There isn't a single situation that it would be better to have a FWD if you know how to drive. Oh yeah, dont bring grammar into this, you are ten years older than me and I'm not going to bother with this "debate" in too much detail.

I agree with what you are saying, that a GTS which may be weak in power can pull ahead of the heavier powered cars because of it's superb handling, but that doesn't mean front wheel drive cars are better for the track. It just means sometimes the better handling cars are better for the track. I can guarantee you there are lots of rear-wheel drive cars that can outhandle a celica on the track, and kill them on the drag strip also. Tuning the suspension has a lot more to do with how fast lap times are going to be rather than drivetrain.

you still don't get it. did I say FWD was equal? did I say RWD does not dominate FWD in general? plus you throw in all this other junk in your paragraphs I didn't even address. you're hopeless, but you don't know that.

^^ How many times are you going to edit your post before you get it straight? What you said was, "don't forget about those special cars that can hold their own on the track." I said thats true, but RWD will always be better than FWD. Only reason Im making this clear is to prevent any rice boys reading this from running around thinking their front wheel drive car is better than Miata's and RX-7's.

NOT TRUE.

This entire post is what I'm talking about.

You can leave your posts unedited with bad grammar which you wouldn't even realize on a second glance. BUT I'm going to edit my posts as many times as I think is necessary to make it easy enough for you to understand. Yes that is what I wrote, and NOW you say that is true. If you realized I said that, you wouldn't have had anything to say to me. Yet you make up that bogus reason that you didn't want rice boys to be misinformed. Oh please...

Bogus reason? The entire reason this thread was created because someone didn't know if FWD is better than RWD. Some people can and will be misinformed.