Celica Forums General Discussion Exterior Another Header Issue

I just read on newcelica.org that 10 people went in on a Group buy for the Trial Header at $700 + shipping for each person. It's been at least a month since they sent out their order. Well, all the stories about Trial's header not fitting properly MAY BE coming true. So far, the Japanese cars have had no problems (even a 290 HP Celica ), but Celicas in Europe and U.S. have all had fitment issues. Trial has reponded by attempting to repair the cause of the mis-mount ,yet they still blame it on improper installs. As for our fellow 10 Celica owners, they're down $750 bucks for the at least the next month. Maybe the end of June they will receive their headers and even then, the header may cause them problems. These are just some thoughts. This is a bad time to buy headers for celicas (**Cough AMSS** (or is it AMMS?)). Just save your cash or buy some other stuff for the time being until more reliable sources say it's ok. I still won't pay over $600 bucks for a good header. Good luck.
--Rob

[ 05-05-2003, 04:38 PM: Message edited by: supra_celica ]

the TRD headers sounds good.

I thought the dyno on the TRD GTS header actually posted a loss...

look up hotshot headers thats what i have and it works perfectly fine

Do they make one for GTS? I didn't think they did.

Steven, I haven't heard anything about TRD's headers except 3-7 hp gain, where-as Trial claimed 7-11 hp. Who knows? Fer real!

Some guys on NC have the Trial on their car. I guess just search around or make a post for them (ATTN: Trial Header Owners). Supposedly the trail header kicks ass. Hotshot does not make one for the GTS.

hotshot only makes GT headers.

Yes, indeed. The Trial Headers installed in a GTS here posted a loss of power.

I have got HOTSHOTS, and it is GREAT!

what??? Trial header INDEPENDENT DYNO at nc.org was over 10hp gain.. TRD dyno was a loss.. Dude do your research before bashing a product you don't have.

FX-MAN,

I don't need your shit. That's what this forum's for. I'm trying to see what others have to say about the issue, dumbass. Everyone's sayin' "Trial's the shit," but in reality, MANY people are having promblems with them. Obviously it's a big enough issue that Trial has postposned production of any more Celica headers. Perhaps it is you that need to do your research instead of starting internet BS with me. If anyone else has insight on the issue, feel free to respond. THAT is what is forum is for.

And if you were refering to that Achue-ching fellow, he is just posting what he knows. Cars are different. One GTS may have a loss and one may have a gain. Lots of factors go into it. Perhaps his post is BS, but depends on how it was installed and perhaps the one in question was a defective product.

[ 05-10-2003, 06:41 AM: Message edited by: supra_celica ]

Rob/Supra, I don't even think FXMAN was talking about/to you. He was talking to achtung. Achtung was claimng that Trial had a loss. I have never heard of Trial having a loss of power, and if it did its probably because the fitment is all messsed up. The only bad thing that I have heard about Trial is this fitment issue. Just keep it cool.

Boy, i am new to this board but it seems as if there are a lot of jerks here. I thought this was just a message board guys not a place where you slam people. At least spiderman keeps it kool. Lets all just try to help other CELICA owners out. I know i need the help

I would get a trial header if i could find one, i think they would give me excellent gains for my little gt

Titanium, Trial doesn't make a header for the GT. At least not yet anywys. After they made the header for the GTS, it was said that Trial will see what happens with the GTS header and if it does good, they will make one for the GT. I wish I had a better update.

FX-MAN, my bad if I misunderstood you. Perhaps Achtung heard of a loss that was caused by a fitment issue. Perhaps he's just wrong. He's doin' what everone else is doin' on here, just posting what they've heard and what they know.

TitaniumFLASH, I didn't mean the play "frighten the newbie." I just thought maybe someone had a quick tongue or something. It's cool though. I'm not sweating a 2 paragraph post when I just worked for 13 hrs. Welcome to the boards, btw. I hope you stick around for a while. You can thank Grand Touring Dan for spotting the "trouble makers" on here. He's got a knack for it. I call him the board lifeguard. But seriously, thanks for asking the question about the GT. Now GT owners have yet another fantasy to look forward to; **cough**turbo**cough**supercharger**

The thing that bothers me about these headers other than the potential fitment problem is the price. Headers the same quality and same gain potential for Integras, Civics, Eclipses (Eclipsi???), and even some Mustangs are about 200-400 dollars cheaper. What gives? Is it the risky product market? Someone needs to let TRD and Trial know that there are boards and sites just like this one that have MASSIVE selling pontential! Think of the math:

Let's say target sales are 1000 Headers.
Only 100 are willing to pay the $800= $80,000
Now, drop the price to average Integra header price.
Only 500 are willing to pay the $500=$250,000

You guys know the one's paying the $800 are getting raped. The companies need to use their heads here. These arn't actual numbers, just a thought to get you thinking.

Supra-Celica.. yeah, I wasn't talking to you, either way you totally misread my tone and flew off the handle, which, being an adult (wife, son, job, house, pickett fence, 2 cars, dog, much more to life than battling it out on a board over a mistake you made), I decided not to respond to your post... I am pretty cool headed (I attribute it to 25 years of martial arts and buddhism). In general, in the future, please assume I am just sharing info not "giving you my shit".

I don't like it when someone posts incorrect info as if it's an educated fact, like a trial header causing a loss, I know a few guys who have the trial header, and they all like it a lot, it's a quality header and the only GTS header with no loss anywhere in the powerband in Dyno. This board can find it's way into product bashing from all the guys who bought something else. It just getts old. ALL other available headers other than the Trial post some losses at certain RPMs along with their gains, which is why trial is having trouble making them fast enough, they bumbed up production and may have ended up with a fitment issue (although this post is the only place I found anything about that). Same thing happened to hotshot though, so I wouldn't be surprised. None of the guys here in Vancouver had any trouble with theirs fitting though.

About the turbo "fantasy".. not sure if I would call it a fantasy, looks like there will be 2 available GT turbo kits by the end of the summer, the most promising is the Dave Draper turbo IMO, which he has Injen doing all the piping for, and starts with the Audi A4 1.8t turbo, since the Audi 1.8 liter engine has almost identical specs to the GT VVT-i (with a turbo on it of course), it's a perfect turbo for our cars. His turbo goes on sale next month. They are in mass production now.

[ 05-10-2003, 10:38 PM: Message edited by: FX-MAN ]

Yeah, that one has raised a lotta' hype. I hope it works out for the GT owners. Perhaps **cough**supercharger** by itself may have been more appropiate. Screw the whole "who inteeded what to who and what was ment by it." I'm in your boat.

HAs anyone asked this guy (company) about a modification to allow this for GTS? My cars got too many miles on it for anything real twacked, like a turbo, but it would be interesting to know. Both are 1.8L, but the valve timing, compression, tranny, etc are all different. Perhaps, it is possible, though. Just curious.

As for anyone else having issues, I read that on the NC site. I've only been on there a few times because for some strange reason to me, they talk about other cars than the Celica. That's fine, but I'm a member here so I can gain and exchange CELICA info.
Peace.
--Rob

I talked to Dave, but I didn't ask, I read a thread on another board where someone said the talked to him about it though. He said he spent over a year tuning the turbo for the VVT-i, and would have to go through it all over again for the GTS since it's so different (which he also said the tuning was probably the hardest part), plus it would be more expensive (he explained why, but it was all greek to me, something about the lift kicking and not being able to unspool/adjust the boost of the turbo as fast as the lift kicks on, which is a problem you don't have with a SC from what I could gather).. he siad that's why the Blitz is so expensive, some component that will instantly reduce the boost when lift kicks on, so you don't blow your engine. He said Blitz doesn't have enough sales to make it worth going through it.. Not sure. My guess it the GT turbo is going to make him rich anyway, so why bother (he already has like 100 orders for it and I think he probably makes about 1.5 to 2K per order). If it works out, he has a shot of having his turbo GT replace the GTS in the next 2 years. Then he'll be a millionaire.

Sort of ironic.. "that which gives you power (lift) will also be your downfall (no turbo)" MUAHAAAAAAHAAAA... sorry I am channeling Dr. Frankenstein.

[ 05-10-2003, 11:43 PM: Message edited by: FX-MAN ]

I'm down with Draper's turbo. I won't have the money for a while, maybe some other companies will come out with a turbo, who knows. But for now, its Drapers'

Dyno figures here recorded only 139 bhp at the wheels after fitting it. yet to check out the fitment though. will try to post dyno chart soon.

[ 05-11-2003, 04:03 AM: Message edited by: achtung ]

let me speak from experience regarding this header since i do own one, have one in my car, and had the divider plate break on me.

first off... fitment is pretty much perfect... it's a pain to get the heatshield on, but that's not a huge deal.

second off.. the header does give you power, I can chirp 3rd gear.
the dyno's that seabrook did (trialgts) from az were done on 18's. Last time i dyno'd on my 18's, i lost ~ 10hp from the stock rims even though both rims weigh the same. Rotational mass is what's killing power here people. So, if he did get between 5-10hp and 5-10ft/lbs of torque w/the header, on 18's, i'm imagining it's producing even more if you're rolling on stock rims.

third off... my divider plate in the header did break, but they are sending me a new header at no cost, which is a helluv a lot better than what amss didn't do for anyone that bought their header that made them lose power.
I still have gains w/the divider plate broken, and i'm not sure if i lost anything w/the piece missing, but the car is faster than it was before.

As for the gains vs trd, i've driven my car, and i've driven other gts' that do have the trd header, and I feel as if the trial header does perform better.

Thanks for the post Russ Hopefully that will help clear things up. Trial is a very good/well know name. I'm sure their products are great, and if they aren't, they will take care of you if disappointed.

Peaceout
Dan

Damn good post. Thanks man. Please keep us posted. Customer service and satisfaction are always key in a anything that you buy.

[ 05-12-2003, 10:40 PM: Message edited by: supra_celica ]

get greddy headers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Greddy makes GTS headers? How much, where, and who has them?

the don't exist and they never will

btw... i managed to chirp 3rd the other day