Celica Forums General Discussion Engine and Performance Trial vs DC sports Header dyno shoot out results. (read this)

OK so now that my stupid car is running again I got to Dyno the DC Sports header.

stupid scanner is being retarded so heres the text version.

**NOTE: This is done on a MUSTANG DYNO not a dyno jet so ignore the numbers and look at the gains. (typical 6% loss due to the 2782lbs load the cars were put under.**

Stock ECU/I/E

170.8 whp @ 8000 rpms
119.1 wtq @ 7000 rpms

Stock ECU/I/E/DC Sports Header

170.5 whp @ 7750 rpms
121.4 wtq @ 7000 rpms

Result - DC made basically same hp only sooner and made 2.3 wtq more.

Now For the Trial Header vs DC Sports Header comparison

00silvergts6spd/ DC Sports

170.5 whp @ 7750 rpms
121.4 wtq @ 7000 rpms

N/A2zz/Trial Header

171.4 whp @ 8250 rpm
119.0 wtq @ 7000 rpm

**The first trial dyno was pretty bad so we used run # 2. DC only got 1 run so we didnt have much choices lol**

From 5300 rpms - 8000 rpms DC > Trial

at 6725 rpms DC > trial by about 15 hp and 15 tq

from 2000 - 5300 the graphs were identical. but trial stops going up and dc doesnt. then trial spikes a lil higher at the end of the run.


My conclusion TPR better get some good gains or we're screwed. Also FYI DC header did better with the power fc. not gonna talk about those numbers though cause we were tuning the trial but not the dc. (was not my tuning day) I just squeezed in 3 runs after we finished his car.

FYI 6% less then a dynojet = a 10HP difference.

Interesting , so wats the point of getting headers?

right now? apparently nothing. unless you make it your only mod lol in which case you're lookin 10 hp over stock lol but who does that?

also dont worry cause this info has been forwarded to R&D people over at DC. Not that they will fix anything. but just wanna let you know that they will know the problem

sweet..thanks for the info..wontbe buying dc header then

wow good info lucky

Unfortunately I was the last person on the planet to get the DC header thanx to DC's lack of follow through. So, I couldn't post these dynos until now.


so far TPR is about the last hope now. if they cant make better power we're screwed

go TPR get something going

yeah TPR(blue and easyc) please make a great header!


one that will fit the GT and GTS

...header header header header...tpr(gts>03-04)

good info dude!!!
anybody have any numbers on hotshot...

doesnt hotshot only do GT's?? so you can rest assured I'll never have that info

mike...those results are hurtin'...can you scan them up so we can see the power curves?

i think they do

^^ hey bro, sorry I missed ya when you came down. I think it was your fault my car died since I was planning on drivin all the way out there lol

so dc gains 10hp w/ out mods but with mods it has no gains? and same for trial???

so DC is better than Trial

yep

they both stink with those numbers

valuable info, mike..thanks for doing the runs

kinda sucks to look at the #'s though...you would think exhaust & intake would slightly improve the header numbers by removing bottlenecks but according to these runs that isn't the case at all. that's kind of curious..i'll definately have to see how tpr does...hopefully that's better but if companies like trial and dc motorsports can't do it, i'd still be skeptical about another company topping them. i guess i/e people will have to start experimenting with custom headers.

oh, and i actually like the mustang dyno better..i like load bearing settings but that could just be me.

The difference with the TPR header is that it's a TRUE 4-2-1 design. It's nothing like stock, Trial, DC, or TRD. It will look very similar to this:



That's a Toda header for the RSX-S.

^^ thanks for the headsup. i'll definately be checking the dyno #'s on this...and i'd also love to see how it does with intake/exhaust since the above #'s seem to show virtually no gain and slightly more torque.

will your 4-2-1 design really be that different in length though? also, if i remember right, dc motorsports initial header designs were to be 4-2-1 but the wound up going 4-1 instead (like trial and trd)...i don't know for a fact but i would assume they changed to this because the gains were better.

a lot remains to be seen though, and i'm hoping trp pulls though with a header that does well with intake/exhaust...because i really don't know anyone who runs around with just a header. virtually every case i've seen with a car using a header also had at least an intake and exhaust. (obviously this has to do with installation ease & cost..but the point remains)

Yes, it should be about that long, maybe a few inches shorter, maybe a few inches longer (not sure how long the final collector will be, or how long the Toda header is). TRD/Trial/DC made their headers like OEM most likely for sales and CARB approval. It's much easier and cheaper to just install a replacement header, and it cuts down on design research, since all those companies really did was use larger piping and smoother bends while sticking to the same design as stock (TRD even used a stock header flange). It also keeps owners from having to modify their midpipe (and altering the stock cat [CARB part of the equation]), which would attract more customers than a header that needed custom work. TPR has taken it a step further by offering a midpipe, including a CARB approved replacement cat and high flow resonator, that fits their header to solve the problem. This does not make the midpipe CARB certified, but it is legal to replace your cat with it after a certain amount of miles or years, depending on your state.

BTW, the stock header is actually a kind of 4-2-1 design (called a theta pipe), but instead of using individual pipes for the secondaries, they just put a divider plate down the middle of the collector and down a bit of the midpipe to simulate a true 4-2-1 design. Toyota claims it was to get the cat to heat up faster on cold startup, but I've been told by a header designer that that's BS, and it was just done to reduce production costs (which is totally believable).

good points.

i live in louisiana and needless to say we don't have CARB and emissions tests are practically NEVER enforced. (cops and brake tag stations usually only enforce exhaust decibel levels). i'd like to see a header that uses a midpipe without the cat and see what type of gains that would give.

Is the TRP header going to be a bolt on?

Pretty much. If you use the TPR midpipe (sold with the TPR header), it's completely bolt on. If you choose to use your stock midpipe, you'll need a muffler shop to shorten it a bit to fit with the header, and add a different flange to connect to the header.

if i buy the headers and the midpipe with the cat will i pass the sniffer, i live in cali by the way. i can pass visual, the most important to me is the sniffer, thanks and keep up the good work

Yeah, there's a very good chance it will. The cat is OBDII compliant and CARB approved as an OEM replacement, which means it's fully compatible with all emissions equipment, and should perform just as well as the OEM cat.

hey bomber, is this going to stainless or coated???

yeah the biggest diff is the design. DC/trd/trial didnt really do any design work. they took stock design and made the pipes bigger. thst style header is going to be as good as it gets. so if it doesnt do well there is no hope.

this really makes me sad because i dont want to put a turbo or a supercharger on my gt, but i was hoping that with simple air flow mods (header, exauhst, intake) i could at least get 140whp. i guess ill just have to spend it on looks instead of performance...or wait til a turbo isnt 3500 dollars..if that ever happens

that wont ever happen lol I'm just glad I got it for free

It's planned to be both. Stainless steel, plus ceramic coating.

cant wait

Keep us posted. Good info. Thanks.

What is TPR's website address?

No site is up yet for TPR. It'll be up soon, probably when the intake is re-released. For now, you can either PM Easy_C to buy CAIs and exhausts (and eventually the header), or go to the Group Buy forum of New[/b]Celica[b].org and sign up.

omg i cant wait

the headers that come with the xs turbo, how good are they or could they safley be replaced?

^^ "header" (sing.)
who cares how good a turbo header is when you have the power of a turbo...haha j/k

it's ok to ask but most people who are concerned with bolt-on performance only have N/A cars. Nothing wrong with N/A, it's just weak unless you have the Elise-like weight or the money to make 300+ whp like the NHRA Sport Compact All-Motor Pros.

TPR is planning on a N/A race header. Ask for a turbo version and maybe they will make it.

This is really nice info, but where are the graphs? It's one thing that your only concerned about peak numbers, its another not to post plots comparing the three runs. I want to see the power curve. I want to see the low/midrange power the three runs made. And the torque and a/f ratio. Maybe the a/f is not at optimal point and can be tuned for more power? But graphs would be nice.

the stock graph was the best over all graph. the A/f ratios werent printed but were the same on all the graphs.
with tuning I can bvring a lot more power in but thats not what the purpose of this was lol.

hello

hello

um wrong place for an introduction lol try the newbies forum

lol hello. any idea how much longer for tpr header? i'm very interested

^^again not the right thread to ask. it's not even produced or prototyped yet.

what seems to be the problem? Any design shoudl give more power than wahts on there. and the shorty design is for torque so expect the new header from tpr to be MUCH better for horse but probably worse for tq (maybe worse than stock) so what matters to you? the DC offers good gains throughout the band Peak hp is useless you guys. dont look at the header and say omg it only gains 10 hp. Look at the graphs (elsewhere.. and no i dont have a link)

^^ it didnt get gains all over the band and it didnt get 10 peak. it lost most of the band and was a tad lower on peak. thats I/E vs I/H/E