Celica Forums General Discussion Engine and Performance Trial vs DC sports Header dyno shoot out results. (read this)

oo sorry i thot they were already making it haha

Good info. Thanks for posting

Dyno graphs please...

Do any of you guys run hi-flo cats with your exhuast setup? In my opinion a full exhaust setup isn't complete until a hi-flo cat is introduced. So the pattern would be header--> hi-flo cat --> exhuast.

Ok im jumping in here
I just got the apex-i chip, AEM intake, DC header and Apex-i exhaust. Now, I didnt get the maps from MWR like an idiot, so i was wondering, does the chip come with a base map so you can at least run the car? Or do i need to find a map to upload on the chip?

It does, but it is worthless. Almost no gains at all.

ok so how long does it take to tune it from a base map

for the GTS the power FC does NOT include a map. you cant run the car from it. I would suggest getting MWR to put a map on for you if you bought it from them.

to get a good solid tune for full throttle and partial throttle making the most power the safest way you can, count on 6 hours of dyno time. assuming the people you take it to know what they are doing. which sadly most shops dont.

Well, how can i tell if the shop knows what they are doing? Do they have to train for the dyno in order to be able to use it, like, will they have a "shiny" certificate to prove they are qualified to use the equipment? And how much does it tend to cost/hour for dyno time?

On MWR's website it says that it DOES include a base map. They had dyno'd the car with the base map and then with there map. Check it out.

Ok, this is quoted from there site:

"Compared to the stock program in the Power FC, well, there is no comparison. Even on Japanese 98 octane the stock program would suck. It produced lots of knock and something like 140whp on our shop Celica with the Injen, and similar results without the Injen. We have always recommended customers get these tuned before driving on the street with them. The stock 1zz PFC program is much better, but still not great."

Well, i just talked to a guy named Matt that works at MWR per e-mail : The car will start and run but at WOT it will knock. Sorry, no English instructions available.

Matt @ Monkeywrench

http://www.monkeywrenchracing.com

ph: 248-624-9820

fax: 248-479-0775

that was a copy and paste move...

Why does it suck so much, wouldnt they make it at least like the stock ecu so it wouldnt knock?

Because I think they were thinking about it for JDM gas. Like 98+ octane.

you DO NOT want to run the car like that.

"It produced lots of knock and something like 140whp"

if you do that to your engine you're just beggin for trouble. it does NOT have a proper 2zz map preloaded. but like I've said before I'm not a professional so don't take my advice if ya dont like it.

who would run a ecu without at least a pre loaded program and no tuning?

From the looks of it the SVT focus and the GTS are in the same boat when it comes to what they can do on the exhaust end...

both are estimated 170 w/ 6 speed trannys, but the ability to upgrade is not there as with the base models, Cosworth which makes the stock header and exhaust for the SVT is so big enough as it is, putting aftermarket pipes is just not worth the money, there is not enough tuning options for the focus ( and seems to be celica aswell ) to beable to change a lot with the "Super" models, as they were.

Its kinda sad when you think of how littly tuned these cars are, which have such great potential, you take a civic, 700 fwhp? give me a break, 1 day the celica and others will catch up with the much more fortunate

drew

wow youre a lil off base there. the focus is rated at 170 yes celica 180. the celica is far better then that crappy focus. our problem is lack of aftermarket support. the engin e can gain the power if someone makes it

What its "rated" and what it has are also 2 different things

okay lucky this one is for you
went to the dyno last night for about 6 hours
we played around with the power fc to make sure a/f ratio was cool and it was
so the tuner decided to mess around with the engagement of vvtli and decided to set it at 5700 rpms,
as you know this resulted in about a 5 hp dip below baseline
but at 5800 rpms i was up almost 20hp over baseline
right now i have a pfc/i/e 176.4whp and 128.7wtq sae corrected and 182whp and 132wtq actual
what i was wondering would a trial header increase the tunablility so that i may see 180-185ish peak whp

I talked with MWR yesterday and they said they didnt think it was not a good idea to lower the 6k rpm lift spot because of loss of power, and you are saying you picked up 20 hp over baseline @ 5800? Did you keep your lift at 5700 or did you put it back to 6k?

Let me know how that works cause im sending my chip back to MWR to get it tuned so i have at least something on it.Matt @ MWR said that the best thing to do was to just raise the rev limiter to like 85k or 86k (since i cant stay in lift btw the 1-2 shift).

you will need a ton of tuning on the trial header to get back up to your power level your at now. trust me i know.

i know, the horsepower dipped about 5 hp right before the cam changeover (because there was gonna be a cam angle change before lift) then had almost a 20 hp difference betweent the base line tune at 5800 rpm and holds about a 3 hp difference throughout the rest of the powerband.
damn i wish i had a scanner
thanx illusive for the response
p.s. lift still hits at 5700

also i want to see more power.if a header isnt the way to go whats next, besides t/c s/c and nitrous

only thing you can do now, is

get a tank of 100 octaine in and go retune with 100 octain for a "race" map,
also you may want to get an 02 dump and have it welded to just after the first 02 sensor(have it dump before the cat), and retune with the 100 octain and 0 restriction exhaust for maximum lift wot gains.

thats about all there is for go fast mods n/a in terms of power adders,

only route left is stroker kit, which is big bucks.

is that how lucky got to 184whp?

i hope the tpr header comes out soon

I have put down 184 on 91 octane. the torque did drop a bit though.

havent done any tuning since the dc header so I'm sitting at only 172 whp right now and 119 wtq. that was 91 octane.

you can raise your compression but thats gonna be big $$ when you count tuning and the cost of higher octane gas.

of course your going to get less gains with more mods on header

you can open things up too much with stock power and lose back pressure and power

the extremity would be to just poke holes in your engine for it to breathe

that wouldnt be good for power

im not bein sarcastic or rude just tryin to make the point obvious that you need a certain amount of backpressure for different amounts of power

you will see more power curving gains with more mods when you have headers and such as a pose to stock

i hope i explained myself well

not really cause thats backwards from what the results were.

more mods the less power it got. the less mods the more power it made lol.

im using 93 octane and i know i can make more power
the guy that tuned my shit, only changed the valve angles
i feel if he played with the ignition timing or a/f ratio,i'd be making more power
p.s. i also think if he used a bigger fan i would have gotten bigger numbers

Question?

I have a dc headers in my gts. I think i lost torqe and horsepower because of the dc headers. The only mods i have is intake and the dc headers. My drag time was 15.2 with injen intake, wings west uritane full. Now im going 15.5 with the dc headers, without body kit.

Is it hard to believe that i bougth the headers to loss hp and torqe or bought it for nothing and waste money

you might've just had some bad launches. I don;t think you would lose enough power to make a .3 second difference.

if you wanna post the #'s off the slips of both runs I can try to help ya sort through it.

hmm...what about those midnight performance headers... i want an N/A car so could these guys be a possitive possibility? they are selling @ around 1k so yeah it puts a huge hole in your wallet...anyways here is the link.

http://midnightperformance.com/header.htm

I wouldn't believe anything till I see a dyno. What they claim (15hp) is probably from a stock celica, just like how DC claim a 11 hp from their header! But if your car is modified with aftermarket intake and exhaust, I'm pretty sure the gains won't be that impressive!

yup what he said.

doesnt brashboy make race header for our cars?

yeah they do but we need to see some a dynos...thats kinda the point...

so whats the latest news on the TPR Headers? hope it comes before spring/summer

soooo in conclusion which is the better header?

stock.

Hi, I just buy my Celica GTS, 2001, and I really need help to increase the hp, please help me step by step...

I run Hotshot Performance headers, got them back in the early 00's. Never had a problem and for sure a decent 10-12 hp. Coupled with a TRD ex. and Rod Millen CAI.

Cold air intake, exhaust, header, nitrous, a new WRX! Costs too much to make these cars fast.

Hi all, i have been all around trying to see what would be best for my celica. I have a 2000 automatic GT, and i have a question. Will i see a benefit from installing the dc headers alone (no exhaust nor intake) specially in the lower and mid range rpms? if not, what combination would help with this? short ram and catback exhaust, cold air and catback?
I do not rev my car that much cause yeah, its an automatic, but i would love some boost specially from kick off.... and I would like to minimize low end power when gaining high end.