Celica Forums General Discussion Engine and Performance Is it worth it? EasyC and Lucky please help!

Ok well since I got my GT, I have wanted to turbo it... After seeing that nearly every GT that is in magizines is turbo'd and everyone wants to turbo their GT, I decided I wanted to be different and try to go NA. What do you think is possible with a NA GT and can some either EasyC or Lucky or someone with lots of knowledge on NA (AZZKIR you can help to) make a quck list of things to do first or stages to take?

I don't want to be super fast, but I would like some speed...

Thanks in advance
Kyle

hey kyle why not try a 2zz swap

^That would be too easy... I want to make it a challenge, which is why I don't want to slap on a turbo...

I also want reliablility since it's my daily driver and I have heard bad stories about aftermarket turbo kits...

What happened to your 21+psi engine blowing track shredding turbo plan? I think N/A would be very different. It may require some creativity (read: money) but it'll get you props on something different. Oh, and does this mean I get to be the evil twin now?

I'd love to run 21 psi, but I saw horrible stories on aftermarket turbo kits and putting them on cars that came NA and that got me thinking. I want reliable power so I decided to stay away from turbo and because everyone is turboing and I want to be different, I thought I'd try NA... And yes you can be the evil twin but my plans have changed a bit...

Right now theres just not that many parts out for N/A power, especially for a GT. However you are in luck because crower just came out with cams. Heres a list of some parts you should get. Keep in mind when all is said and done this will cost a lot.

Intake
Exhaust
P&P your exhaust manifold or wait for a good race header to come out
P&P your head
Valves
Springs
Cams
Rods
Higher compression Pistons
Bore out to 2.0 liters
Get the PFC(Get it fine tuned and raise your rev limit)

As far as the gains, who knows because theres not many people that have done all that, in fact theres nobody that has done all that.

Then, I guess I'll be the guinea pig for it... I like being different!

that list properly tuned should get you into the 200 club n/a. maybe other stuff like fuel pumps, ignition, injectors and stuff could squeeze a couple more hp.

you dont wanna get the trd supercharger? That alone will give you more torqe and horsepower then any of those mods. In magazines, ive never heard of a celica having one, so if you planning on being in one then guess what? Yea youll be different

honestly, if you're looking for big n/a power. you are seriously better off with a 2zz starting platform. The 1zz will never have the same n/a potential as the 2zz. That's the way they are made. you may very well get mid to high 100's for power with a fully built 1zz n/a, but then again, you START with that with the 2zz. Either way it won't be "easy" per se.

That's exactly what i was going to add. I was gonna say if i had to guess about power id say you would be around a stock gts, maybe slightly more. Would be much cheaper and easier to just swap a 2zz in. I dunno why you would want to go through all that work and money just to be the same speed as a stock gts.

i already through that idea in

with the GT motor, it's pointless unless you wanna supercharge it with TRD and get the TRD style hood for a little bit of power
just turbo it if you want mucho power

just turbo it..my $0.02. if you're willing to spend that much cash on rebuilding or what not..just reinforce your engine so you can run a higher psi than all the 'other' turbo gt's

isnt the whole point of this thread not to turbo or super, and yet all your comments are saying that when he said he doesnt want to

yea some people like to read

Thank you! I know that if I want mucho power I should turbo... I know I would need to re-enfore my engine to run the turbo, but even if I run it at a higher psi than all the other turbo GT's that won't matter, because in the end it is still a turbo GT isn't it...

I would like to stay away from turbo the more I think about it... I also would like to stay away from a 2ZZ, I know that it has more NA potential, but I want to do something different.

I was considering a 3ZZ, but I think that is way too much for what you are getting, but it is still a possibility...

even though he said he doesn't want to do those two
we are trying to say that the motor NA is not worth it and that a supercharger or turbo is what he would want if he wants power
like they said, an NA 1zz would only get you to the power of the 2zz.

I really don't car how much power I will end up having. I just want some more than I have now...

than i suggest getting the supercharger and anything else you can.

I'd get the supercharger if I didn't have to get that hood... I hate that hood...

there's not much else you can do, just do whatever they make for it like those new cams and the works.

If there is a way another hood can be modded to fit without cutting a hole in it then I would do the supercharger... If there isn't then I won't...

I doubt it. You may want to think about an MWR 1zz race motor. Also once you manage to get the power up to or around that of a stock GTS remember you'll have a huge torque advantage, thus better off the line and better power curve.

fiber images makes the TRD hood to buy in Carbon Fiber
it's a full replacement

i think you should just go w/ the 3zz...or you can try to build one urself($$$$$)..and theres always the blitz supercharger, but iono if it fits on a GT

blitz SC is for GTS
he would get the TRD for his GT

Blitz can be customized to fit a GT, I think it says that on Trial site and isn't the Trial the same as the Blitz?

You have a very, very good point...

Despite what everyone says, I'm going NA...

when you do go NA and finish tell us ur results..and ill join you w/ my built NA GT
oh yea and wat about NOS?

I plan on running a 50 shot but I may change my mind and run a 75 shot...

I want to begin building up the engine in spring and throught the summer...

I'm sure you realize a 3zz is Trial's name for a stroked 2zz with upgraded internals. It's a 2zz base, and I believe you said you don't want to do a 2zz swap.

I read somewhere about people combining a 1ZZ with a 2ZZ to make a 3ZZ... I saw this on the other site.

2zz is the base and by that I mean the block and the head. the crank is from a 1zz. You would be doing a 2zz swap.

I see... Thanks for clearing that up. I decided to just do NA already, but now I know more about the 3ZZ.

swap and do a 3zz! thats wat i wanna do..except i dun have a few 10g's to throw around..

swapping would be too much
despite blitz fitting the GT, it's still more than TRD

I think this kid is living in a dream land. All those mods + install will cost about 5grand. mabye a little more. I know you want to be different. But be smart with your money. You will not be satisfied with the power you get in the end after spending that much money. Cams alone are about 1k and install for them is about 1k. Thats just 1 mod...2g's. Swapping to a 2zz is being different. Not many people do it, if any. If you do that swap and do those mods you will be very satisfied. and its not easy to just swap an engine.

First off, I install all my own mods... I don't let anyone touch my car except for my bodyshop.

2nd you don't even know my, so how can you judge me and say I'm living in a dream land? I have the money to do everything, so money isn't a problem. I don't go to mommy and daddy for all my money either, I work hard and I'm actually working 2 jobs and going to school.

Before you post please know the facts... I stated I don't really car about how much power I end up with since the car is primarily a show car. My theme for the car is "different". I am getting a body kit you rarely see and I am doing a lot of things different from what you see on most Celicas.

Go drive an STI, and then tell me you dont want to do a 2ZZ swap, build your motors, and turbo. 15PSI 300ish WHP.

Drool...I can't wait till this spring...working on mine right now.

turbo = too much torque = wheel spin.

Go N/A and build a 10K revving 2zz. If you hit mid 200 whp figures you'll be in the low 13's high 12's with actual usable torque.

Ok so 2ZZ swap and turbo... That is combining both ideas of what I don't want to do...

I wish people would understand that if I get 180bhp, I could really careless. I'm not trying to get 300whp or even 200whp. I'm just trying to do something that very few have done (I actually haven't heard of or seen a completely NA GT).

I will begin the build up shortly after my bodywork is done... I will post updates along the way as well as dynos.

No matter how much you tell me to do a 2ZZ swap, it won't happen. Sure call me foolish and stupid. Say I'm wasting money. All I can say is I wanna be different and a NA 1ZZ is definently different.

I see what he is trying to do and I understand his feelings. I dont have any tips to give though since I dont know much myself. I wish you luck in your endevor.

The person you should be talking to is Matt at MWR. He can hook you up with whatever you want. By the way, I thought nitrous was considered forced induction, hence, you wouldnt be N/A?

I'm gunna run the car at the track without the n2o and with it... I will have a few pure NA runs (without the n2o) and then I'm gunna use the n2o just to see what I can get...

nitrous IS considered F/I and would not be N/A.

don't worry most people said the same to me and still do lol I have less hp then any turbo guys yet I put down better track times then most of em

nobody has gone full hardcore N/A with a GT so it would be different. Azzkikr is the closest I've seen.

to do it you'll spend a LOT of money, just warning you now. you alo WONT hit 200 whp. maybe 180's all said and done.

here's what I would do if I had a GT and a large budget...

1) power FC
2) intake (tpr is cheap and has good gains, choice 2 would be AEM)
3) exhaust (tpr or trd are good choices)
4) raise the compression to 11:1
5) new rods
6) valves
7) valve springs
8) titanium retainers
9) stage 2 crower cams
10) up it to the 2.0L
11) light weight rims
12) drag radials

basically ditto what john said lol

I think this will have you well on the way to having a VERY nice N/A setup for a GT. I run high 13's with only 172 whp. so could you with the right track setup and some good driving. that would shut a lot of people up about you having an N/A GT hell even low 14's would be hella respectable.

but you will pay 3x what I paid lol it's all about what makes you happy.

All of this is still $6000 less then what I would have done if I got a turbo...

I plan on swapping to a GTS tranny, will this help the times at all?

How do you figure?

I read somewhere that the GTS tranny is aimed more toward acceleration and not top speed... In the 1/4 mile don't you want acceleration instead of top speed?

I think he's counting the price of the turbo + the cost of building the motor.

yes, the 6spd would give you a slight advantage IMO.

Ohh he wanted to know about the turbo...

Yeah the price of the turbo would go into that which is $3500 and then I was still gunna have a little bit more engine work done...

how much would it cost just for the swap of a 2zz into a gt? i hear all the talk about the swap but how much is it?

Go TPR with the intake and header. I want to see what the best N/A can do. Good luck

I finally have a supporter! Yay!

I will make frequent updates once I start ordering parts...

i'm goin NA with my GTS, turbo is too much i can use that money for something else.

HEY!!! I supported you first!! Just go back about 12 posts and see...I feel so small Oh well

Sorry, I missed ya... I must have skipped the post cause all I saw was you're wasting money, get a turbo, and do a 2ZZ swap...

I plan on ordering these parts pretty soon here...

TPR exhaust, TPR intake, custom race header, pullies.

Along with that I will be getting a GTS tranny and new clutch and lightened flywheel.

hold the race header idea and go with stage 2 cams and a power fc instead. also don't do a crank pulley. and the other pullies dont reayy help so you can itch that idea too.

hey i support Kyle, his goal is to hit low 13s N/A i think it is totally possible.
in reality he needs sticky tires to lay down the grip. not just a PnP head job, you need to get the works when it comes to machining.

how do those drag racers hit low 9s N/A with like 800hp on hondas? what do they do to get such high hp. thats all kyle really has to do.

he wont hit low 13's he will be lucky to see high 13's

actually it's low 10's, rarely high 9's, around 350 whp, around 1700 lbs race weight, and top skills.

ya thats another thing he would need to do is shed weight, shed weight and sticky tires and 13s become attainable

yup I can vouch for that. 2,340 lbs race weight on drag radials and 172 whp got me in the high 13's

im sorry i dont know much about 7th gens, but how much do they weigh? the GT in particular the GT.

Carbon Fiber hood, Carbon Fiber fenders or FG, Carbon Fiber or FG rear hatch, lexan rear hatch, battery relocation to behind passenger seat, get rid of A/C(any GT's come with no A/C?)

Sorry for the nob question but, What is a 2zz swap?

no one likes answering my questions or something... just wanna know how much the swap costs for the 2zz into gt!

a 2zz swap is when you swap in a 2zz-ge engine into the GT, basically taking the engine from a GTS and swapping it in... and it depends on the price.. how ever much you can get an engine for