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Why is it that it takes lift longer than Honda's v-tec to kick in?? any ideas or comments?? This has always intrigued me... 
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cam profiles.
Its not that it takes longer so much. it's set where it'll make the most power with our stock cam profiles.
Last edited by Lucky_317; Feb 19, 2005 4:49pm.
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because there 2 different engines. and wat mike just said ^^^^
Last edited by Clos; Feb 19, 2005 4:51pm.
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if you get race cams, does lift then engage earlier, or do you have to tune the ECU?
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two of my friends have Honda Si's and they say my auto gts hits "lift" much harder than their vtec's do. They also raced a 6-speed gts and thought he had nitrous or cams or something internal that i couldnt see when he popped the hood. They made me check to see if he had any mods he hadnt said cause he beat them so bad...he was just an excellent driver, had no back seat, and only a drop-in k&n filter 
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Well would changing my cams make me hit lift earlier?? or do i have to tune the ECU?
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actually yes you can with power fc, but then again there wont be any point because i belive you wont produce any power below the 62k, and sence tpr is out with cams, i remember mike saying lift would probably be raised up to 7k sence the low rpm lobes are tuned higher than stock. so on our engines there is no point on hitting lift earlyer than it allready is.
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it's simply a guess still, but I'm anticipating raising lift with the profiles on the tpr cams.
what you need to realize is that you don't have to rely on "lift" to make all the power.
to put lift in it's optimal place heres what you do...
raise lift really high like 7500 rpms and tune the car to make the most power possible.
then lower lift really low like 5000 rpms and tune the car to make the most power possible.
then what you'll have is a funny shaped X where ever the 2 points meet is where lift should be. no point in having it any other place.
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Smart thinking, thanks for the feedback...
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is i-Vtec more comparable to VVTL-i? and VVT-i comparable to Vtec? i thought Honda added the "i" and other performance upgrades to rival with toyota's VVTL-i 
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vtec kicks in before vvtli does vtec kicks in at 5400rpm and vvtli kicks in at 6200rpm... vtec is activated by a oil pressure that pushes a pin up that activates the 3rd lob and it opens the exhaust side valves longer and its on the exhaust side cam... vvtli is on the in take side cam and the whole cam advances... vvtli is like a lot like ivtec... vvti is just a little changing in timiming to make a little more power yea i have a lot of honda freinds and i worked a lot on honda and toyota motors
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VVTL-i kicks in harder then VTEC, some owners of Preludes / Civic Si / GSR say they can't even tell when it comes on, just the sound gets louder. Although you gotta be pretty dumb not to know, the transition is very mild. But VVTL-i is really strong and you can feel the rush. Its even a tad better then on the Integra Type-R (I read this on the www.clubrsx.com [ clubrsx.com]). i-VTEC is like VVTL-i, but you can't feel i-VTEC, the transition is too smooth. Many guys on clubrsx complain that they can't feel shit, but certainly the power is there. In the end VVTL-i still is superior as it varies timing & cam phasing on both intake & exhaust valves (I-VTEC only does it on the intake valves).
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 ok here we go again. I'm gonna have to quote you guys to to fix this. vtec kicks in before vvtli does vtec kicks in at 5400rpm and vvtli kicks in at 6200rpm... vtec is activated by a oil pressure that pushes a pin up that activates the 3rd lob and it opens the exhaust side valves longer and its on the exhaust side cam... vvtli is on the in take side cam and the whole cam advances... vvtli is like a lot like ivtec... vvti is just a little changing in timiming to make a little more power yea i have a lot of honda freinds and i worked a lot on honda and toyota motors "lift" is activated by oilpressure that pushes a pin in place also. VVTI is what makes the timing changes and rotates the cam only on the intake side. and yes, Ivtec and VVTLI are practically the same thing. VVTL-i kicks in harder then VTEC, some owners of Preludes / Civic Si / GSR say they can't even tell when it comes on, just the sound gets louder. Although you gotta be pretty dumb not to know, the transition is very mild. But VVTL-i is really strong and you can feel the rush. Its even a tad better then on the Integra Type-R (I read this on the www.clubrsx.com [ clubrsx.com]). i-VTEC is like VVTL-i, but you can't feel i-VTEC, the transition is too smooth. Many guys on clubrsx complain that they can't feel shit, but certainly the power is there. In the end VVTL-i still is superior as it varies timing & cam phasing on both intake & exhaust valves (I-VTEC only does it on the intake valves). the reason lift is more noticeable is because we have such crappy low end performance. in a car like mine and most anybody in a gts running the power fc, you wont feel lift kick in. this means it's actually less efficient then the way the rsx has it. not the other way around like you're trying to make it sound. also you have your facts backwards. celica = variable intake side only RSX = both intake and exhaust side are variable.
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VVTL-i kicks in harder then VTEC, some owners of Preludes / Civic Si / GSR say they can't even tell when it comes on, just the sound gets louder. Although you gotta be pretty dumb not to know, the transition is very mild. But VVTL-i is really strong and you can feel the rush. Its even a tad better then on the Integra Type-R (I read this on the www.clubrsx.com [ clubrsx.com]). i-VTEC is like VVTL-i, but you can't feel i-VTEC, the transition is too smooth. Many guys on clubrsx complain that they can't feel shit, but certainly the power is there. In the end VVTL-i still is superior as it varies timing & cam phasing on both intake & exhaust valves (I-VTEC only does it on the intake valves). the reason lift is more noticeable is because we have such crappy low end performance. in a car like mine and most anybody in a gts running the power fc, you wont feel lift kick in. this means it's actually less efficient then the way the rsx has it. not the other way around like you're trying to make it sound. also you have your facts backwards. celica = variable intake side only RSX = both intake and exhaust side are variable. i thought VVT-i was only variable on the intake side and VVTL-i was variable on both intake and exhaust valves?
Last edited by FFdrifter; Feb 20, 2005 5:09pm.
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i have personally driven two V-Tec cars (my mothers Honda 6cyl. accord and a person i know Integra) and then driven my friends GTS, the hit into lift is much harder and you feel it much more than any V-TEC i have ever driven... the power surge just is not there
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TO REACAP vvtl-i will own a stock v-tec every time
"friends dont let friends drive stock"
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the reason lift is more noticeable is because we have such crappy low end performance. in a car like mine and most anybody in a gts running the power fc, you wont feel lift kick in. this means it's actually less efficient then the way the rsx has it. not the other way around like you're trying to make it sound. This is true, As I've added mods to increase midrange/top-end performance, I have noticed that the transition to the high-cam is less noticable then when it was stock. Even just an intake/exhaust combo will do this. I like the fact that it's less noticable, because it just makes the powerband more comfortable and linear.
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i thought VVT-i was only variable on the intake side and VVTL-i was variable on both intake and exhaust valves? read my post again. you're not correct. i have personally driven two V-Tec cars (my mothers Honda 6cyl. accord and a person i know Integra) and then driven my friends GTS, the hit into lift is much harder and you feel it much more than any V-TEC i have ever driven... the power surge just is not there it's not a power surge. it's a lack of power before lift. TO REACAP vvtl-i will own a stock v-tec every time we're trying to post facts here. please refrain from posting on things for which you are not properly informed.
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[quote=FFdrifter]SSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHH we're trying to post facts here. please refrain from posting on things for which you are not properly informed.  ...that was harsh
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celica = variable intake side only Well on the everything celica tech page it says that the 2zz has two cam profiles for both exhaust and intake
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^^ your fate is in a jury of your peers.
I'll post a response when them come to a verdict. (this will make sense soon)
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ivtec will always own vvtli.
y do you think we have to change lift bolts, clean the lift sensor shit and do all this other shit to keep lift strong, the fact is honda created the ivtec, and toyotas vvtli is toyotas vertion of a ivtec.
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celica = variable intake side only Well on the everything celica tech page it says that the 2zz has two cam profiles for both exhaust and intake [/quote] ok they decided I should be nice so here goes... the cam profiles have nothing to do with this conversation.
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ivtec will always own vvtli. thats not true either. they are the same damn thing done 2 different ways. it's like asking which weighs more, a ton of feathers or a ton of bricks. in the end it's still a ton 
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Hmmm...interesting...still would eat a Honda for breakfast though...it's not the car...its the driver! 
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[quote=GTS_Rosh]
also you have your facts backwards.
celica = variable intake side only
RSX = both intake and exhaust side are variable. Sorry Lucky, but I found out your RIGHT. The celica only varies timing/phasing on the Intake valves only. Only I-VTEC in the K20A found on the base RSX & Civic Si models do exactly the same thing. Its only on the K20C in the Type-S that it actually works on intake & exhaust.
Last edited by GTS_Rosh; Feb 21, 2005 10:18am.
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isnt the type S a K20A2 not K20C
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Originally posted by widebodyboy:
vtec is activated by a oil pressure that pushes a pin up that activates the 3rd lob and it opens the exhaust side valves longer and its on the exhaust side cam whoa, 3 cam profiles we must all bow to vtec 
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never say that ^^^^^ again, toyota will never bow down. especially to honda
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never say that ^^^^^ again, toyota will never bow down. especially to honda i hope you realize how utterly rediculous a car would be to have 3 cam lobes. for each cylinder. the valvetrain weight alone would be horrendous. it was a joke and i was poking fun at him for saying 3 cam lobes when in fact no honda has ever been made with 3 cam lobes.
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the rsx-s has 3 cam lobes
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Some places called the Type-S engine the K20A2, so I dunno what the hell is the right answer. Anyways, the Type-S does have 3 cam lobes! Here is a good read on VTEC & I-VTEC: http://www.superhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124797
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it's the K20A2 but just in case you dont believe me I posted on clubrsx.com I already know I'm right but so that you guys dont have to take my word read this thread as people reply... http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=240860and yes, the type S actually has 3 lobes.
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kraziness
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bah 3 lobes 2 profiles, the 3rd lobe is just there to stabilize the cam. 2 identcal low profile lobes, and one high lift lobe. = 2 profiles. I was referring to something that had 3 different lobes with 3 different profiles. i digress...
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don't worry, I won't tell anyone you made a boo boo
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