Celica Forums General Discussion Engine and Performance Don't laugh...

So I got to thinking. Half of the auto celi's problem is getting off of the line. This could possibly be delt with by upgrading the torque converter so it has a higher stall speed. This could possibly let it break traction off of the line. What if the tires were "greased" so that they will break traction more easily? Like some light cooking oil or something like that sprayed before the launch?

This is a serious thread, please leave any wise cracks or "go buy a stick" posts out of it.

Yeah if you want to go serious you could uprgrade the torque converter for some help off the line.

Why the hell would you want it to break traction? Its only going to make your car even slower on the 1/4. If you are looking to impress people with a burnout,it's going to look stupid anyway because you are going to have just one wheel spinning unless you get an LSD.

"go buy a stick"... and bang yourself over the head with it.

You want to be able to break traction so that you can actually launch.

Almost sig-worthy.

Breaking traction is only good for one thing and that is to warm up tires BEFORE a race. Breaking traction off the line is going to slow you down ALWAYS.

I don't think you understand what it's like trying to launch an auto from a dead halt. It simply cannot get off of the line. Slicking the tires up would ease some of the burden of getting the car off the line.

You dont get it. Slicking up tires is going to cause them to spin and your car is not going to move, your car might feel faster but its not going to do a damn thing improving your ET. Your auto GT isn't making much power down low thats why it feels slow. Spinning the tires will raise it into the powerband for a bit, but you are going to bogg down once the tires catch traction. All the time your car hasnt moved much more than a couple of feet.

What you should do is stick the shifter in N, Revv to about 5k and drop it back in D.

Yeah and just so you know, no sanctioned track is going to let you grease up the tires outside of the waterbox.

This is more of a "what would happen if" than a "I'm gonna do this next time I'm at the track" kinda thing. But you can't neutral drop, at least not in my GTS. It'll chirp the tires and then bogs like a mother.

BINGO! Greasing up the tires is just going to spin them for awhile while your car sits there for about a good 2 seconds, then bog down once your tires catch traction.

A little tip...
If you want to help your car jump into the powerband a little sooner. Just use your left foot to hold the brake down while you gas up to around 3500rpm or so... When you are ready to go take your foot off the brake and slam the gas, might help a tiny bit.

Yeah, but the stall speed stops at 2.5k rpms, which is why I'd need the beefed up torque converter. Level 10 said the highest they could go with it is 3.5k, and I'm not sure if that's gonna be enough.

You can break the tires loose in the bleach box at the dragstrip, ever drive on a day when the roads are wet? the tires still break loose, even on the factory convertor.

If you lock the hand brake it's easy to do burnouts in a bleach box, just be sure to jiggle the steering wheel back and forth a little, and leave it in drive, so it shifts to 2nd, drop the handbrake when you're done.

Dry roads are a different story, torque convertors with a higher stall let the motor rev higher before it locks, like holding the clutch in a little longer on a manual car.

Now, you need a valve body kit to shorten the shifts up, building valve body pressure will help it shift faster and harder, but you need to recalibrate the valve body to truly make it shift between gears quicker. Not as bigh a deal when in M mode, but this is partly why there's such a delay between the button press and an actual gear change.

One company prototyped a valve body kit, but it never went into production. A company such as level 10 can custom make one for you though.

One company makes some nice torque convertors for our cars:
http://www.jmousa.com/us/flash/frame/index.html

And Phantom grip makes an LSD conversion kit for our tranny as well, it turns the factory diff into a limited slip unit.

TurboEast's IS300 ESK supposedly works too, but there's little info on that, let alone verification of compatibility, so I'd avoid it for the time being...

Car only moves if there is friction between pavement and tire surface.
If you grease the tires, the car won't move. You'll only spin the wheels.
It's Physics 101.

Guys, I realize that if the tires are greased, they'll just spin. I said a light spray of oil or something, not actually rubbing the tires down with it. Not even on all of the tire, just on half of it so that the car doesn't struggle so much in trying to launch.

this thread is rediculous...

half the problem of the auto isnt that it cant launch...

its the gearing ratio. end of discussion, now, if you wanna make a 6 speed automatic tranny then maybe you'll be able to utilize the potential of your engine...

Have you EVER seen an auto gts run at the track? Have you EVER seen the 0-60' times from one? Evidently not.

the GTS autos are 4 speeds.

we've seen timeslips...what are you getting at?

I'm simply trying to come up with different ways to get the GTS off the line quicker. I know at least a good second is spent just trying to get off the line. That's all I'm sayin'.

I think Rave699 has answered your questions...

Well yeah, but I wasn't asking how to get it off the line quicker in general, I was wondering if my tire idea was at all plausible. When a car launches, you're going to get wheel spin regardless. The auto doesn't, it just chirps and bogs. It gets too much traction is what I'm saying. I was just wondering if this would be a way to find a happy medium.

you can only do so much in an auto. you can only get off the line just a tad quicker with even the mods listed by Rave699.

i really think you should concentrate on other things...because once it's all said and done you'll put so much money, time, and effort...and in the end you'll get a car that won't even touch high 15s (granted this is without FI ).

I'm taking it up to a point. So far I've got the tpko shift kit, 75 zex shot, tsrm. I definitely expect to hit high 15's, maybe even low 15's. We'll see how it goes.

if i took off normal in my manual it would be like taking off in your auto...

the bottom line is that you would need to neutral bomb your car to "launch" it... and then say goodbye to your tranny...

you WANT traction off the line...

Actually, I've nuetral bombed my tranny a couple of times, it's still holding up. Just can't over do it. I really wouldn't do it at all on a GT.

I know you want traction off the line. That's not what I'm saying. But the auto gts doesn't have enough power to keep launching the car, if you get what I'm saying?

1. your tranny isnt any stronger than the one in a GT... keep on neutral bombing away

2. celica's dont have anywhere near enough torque to spin the tires off the line if they are not launched... gt, gts... whatever... no torque... so the only way your gonna get those tires to spin is to rev it up and put it into a drive gear.


so either neutral bomb it (and pay the price)... or live with it...

your celica looks nice, but maybe if you put More money into your engine, than your lights, bodypanels, etc..you wouldnt even have posted this...how about getting an intake. that seems to help with off the line power...

How can you say it's not any stronger than the GT? It's made to shift more often than the GT. In the manual it says to treat the tranny as if it were a manual.

2. You're not point out anything I don't already know, I've been saying the same damn thing the whole post. It chirps and then bogs after neutral dropping, hence bringing me back to my original question.

I also realize that if I spent more money on the engine than the body, it would be faster. Thank you for that brilliant deduction.

This thread is hilarous
The same shit you are getting from neutral dropping is going to happen from greasing up your tires, a little screech then bog back down once your tires regain traction. When tires are just spinning and your car is going nowhere,you are going to lose time it's damn common sense.

supercharger ...it will solve all of our problems of getting off the line

i agree...after the neutral bombing statement i'm gone...

kinda like drifting eh?...

Kinda, yeah. When your tires are spinning in a drift, the momentum and weight of the car does the moving.

*sigh* Ok. Why can't the auto launch? Because it doesn't have enough power to keep the wheels going once launched off the line. Right?

No wait, I have a better way to explain it.

It's agreed that a higher stall speed will make the auto be able to launch. Why is that? So that the car can actually get the tires moving off the line. That's the same thing I'm talking about with the vegetable oil. Something that'll wear off quickly, but still get the tires moving. And when I mean quickly I mean real quickly. I grasp the concept of traction/physics.

why don't you try it then get back to us with the results.

That's not a bad idea.

Is this like a april fools joke?

Lol, no, it's not an april fools joke. I'm really being serious.

Seeing as today is March 30th, I would guess not.

You could always just hold brake down and rev to about 2500 RPMS and then when you launch, floor it and let go of the brake. that is about the only way you are going to get a tiny bit faster launch in an auto, but his is common sense and really doesnt help that much

Not really because most pro drift cars have enough power to keep the car from bogging. Also, they dont start slipping the tires from a dead stop, more like 40-50 mph. But, in terms of lap times of course gripping is faster I know that.

Hey he could be waiting to tell us. I mean come on...vegetable oil

cant believe i just read half this post.

a stall converter on you car would have more power off the line, but you don't want the tires spinning off the line, i've been to the track enough to know that when i spin the tires there, i lose a few points off the time every time. the stall converter will let you launch from a higher rpm, thus more power off the launch. a supercharger is the only real thing that will get feelable power off the launch cause it creates power constantly. bolt ons will only help to the point where you'll bearly notice it off the line, but they are good for higher rpms. the only other thing to do to get more power off the line is go with an oversized bore kit.

i was thinking over his idea, i think it would be worth a try, a lot of people are like breaking traction is not good, yes of course when your not gripping your not going anywhere. But i'm thinking how we launch sticks, we rev high and either drop the clutch or slightly feather it. We spin the tires slightly which causes our car to lurch up to some speed and when the tires grip the engine rpm corresponds with ratio of gear to speed. Ok, everyone has looked at dyno sheets and know that horsepower for the celica increases with the rpm, and that at say 4k rpm the power is at least 2x as much as 1.5k rpm. Ok, say he is able to spin his tires by say "greasing" them slightly so his car lurches up and his tires grip at 4k instead of 1.5k, he is able to start putting down at least 2x as much hp as before, our cars don't have enough torque to spin the tires any after the launch and besides the "grease" most likely would have worn off. Most will say durring the "spin" he is not putting down much power and is wasting time, well if he is able to compensate for the amount of time it takes to get going with less hp i think it would be worth it. I'm not saying this will work or if it is feasible or a good idea, i'm just saying while its quite bizzare i would at least give it a shot if he's serious, he might not shave a second off his 1/4 mile time but maybe .25. Another thing to note, when he spins i imagine he will not completely have no traction, i believe he will lurchin forward at some speed.

the simple fact is that with grease, if you get them spinning, now you don't have any traction at all, like trying to launch your car in the rain, you just sit there for a bit and go nowhere, and when they do catch, he won't be going fast enough for 4k at the rpm. grease is worse than rain for traction. yes we all spin tires off the line at a track but theats after they've been warmed up and only for a second or two.

Scott gets it! Yaaaay! Exactly what I'm talking about. And Trdcelica13, I get what you're saying, but if only a portion of the wheel was slicked, I believe that you'd still be able to get traction after like a second.

if you only slick half of it, your going to probably end up with bad wheel hop, which will ruin the tranny, for example, it will start sliding, but once it hits the clean spot of the tire, it will catch, bog, and then slide again when it hits the slick part, and if your talking about half the tire as in width, its going to be either you have too much on and slide like my rain example, or you have too little and bog out , if this was a feasable situation, you would hear about cars doing it, or something along that line, but it you want to see for yourself, try it out, but you could case a tranny problem, which i wouldn't risk, the fact is, unless your going for speed, which you probably should have got a manual for if you were, the only route to solve your problem is a supercharger and/or a torque converter for autos. the only other thing you can do right now is buy a manual tranny, the pedal set, some shift linkage and i think a new mount, and a new computer, and someone around you(if your around me then either me or a few of my friends i know can pull it off for cheap)that can do it and you'll get more speed, thats pretty much your options. If you think about your greasing idea, tracks don't allow that, thats actually what they stop racing for to clean off the track, and are you really going to get out of your car every time you feel like speeding off or racing someone and spray your tires even if it somehow did work? If i was in the other car i think i'd have a nice laugh about that.

haha, i did say i did think it wasn't feasible but heck it might be worth a try just for giggles. I mean even though this might help you get off the line a little quicker the long gears of the transmission will definitely hurt you for the rest of the 1/4 mile and you will never be close to as fast as a manual. But hey making your car just a little quicker is all your trying to do.. I'm sure you could rig up something that sprayed your "cooking oil" on to your wheels as you roll up to the line.. haha.. and throw it off as a purge.. lol.