Celica Forums General Discussion Exterior OPINION QUESTION FOR ALL CELICA OWNERS WHO WANNA GO FORCED INDUC

Hey I'm over here at Fort Carson in Colorado because my unit got called up for Operation Iraqi Freedom. And so I'll be gone for alittle over a year and a half over there in the sand box.
When I come back in 2006(SHIT!) I will have... well lets say enough money to go supercharger or turbo etc.
I was thinking super because I already have the trial headers in, (bitch to get int! but worth it) and I do not want to have to pull that bitch back out.
So which would you go with,
blitz supercharger
trial supercharger
XS engineering turbo
or... 3zz-ge conversion
Please give me your opinions, all are well within my price range, and then some. I come back with about 30-35,000 in my bank and I wanna beef my baby up!
thanks!
Jason

Hey Jason why don't you just cell your celica and get a Nissan Z350 ??? Almost 300HP stock... And it's about $30-35.000...

Never sell the celi!!!!

Come one get real...
Try 350z my frend and...It's much better than a celica...
And even if he instal the turbo , His celica not going to be faster than STOCK Z350...
P.S.I do like my Celica but if i would have enough money to get Z 350 i would transfer to www.Everything350Z.com [everything350z.com]

I do agree...i love the 350z and do agree with everything you said. id do the same thing. but for now its all about the celi!

I do agree...i love the 350z and do agree with everything you said. id do the same thing. but for now its all about the celi! [/quote]
True...True...

a 3zz is an actual econommy motor in Europe. please don't get the two mixed up.

what you're talking about is the 2zz-ge stroker kit.

i'd get the xs

u should definately count the 3zz stroker kit out since it runs at like a 12+ to 1 compression ratio which means you need racing fuel just to run it safely.

if you seriously don't wanna part with your trial header, i would go with one of the supercharger kits

not the 350z...they dont even sell good in japan (i think)

i would go for the XS turbo

trial

isnt there a 3zz made by trial? you give them your used 2zz and they bolt/replace a few things on it (basically a bigger engine?) and presto...3zz conversion.

i like both the xs turbo and the blitz supercharger...

i think the xs will give you higher gains, but turbo's are very complex and some people have problems over time

superchargers are generally more reliable.

so it's your call, really.

^^ thats true, but if it were me, i'ld wait and when you get back there should be a lot more options for he celica

and with that much cash, i'ld get a better car, i love the celi but there are a lot of better cars out there in that price range 30-35k:

350Z
S2000
WRX STI
etc.

ps. ^my choices are in that order

yeah, they pretty much increase the stroke and increase the compression by replacing the rods with longer ones, and do some other stuff.

Engine Crank, Connecting Rods, Pistons,
Crank End Spacer Ring, Crank End Oil Seal,
Front Spacer Washer, Metal Head Gasket.

Other Info:

For a base, a new or used 2zz engine must be provided or paid for by the customer.
Original mounts are slightly modified and used.

Apex-i power FC or HKS F-Con V-Pro can be used for maximum performance.

The car will run normally without any fuel modifications until you start
to put on the gas.

Other fuel controllers such as Apex-i S-AFC might work but Power FC and V
Pro are recommended for best results.

After the kit you get about 220 hp and 20 kg of torque. on Japanese high octane gas (105).
The Engine will hold up to 8,000 RPM. The valves are thought to be the weak point of this engine.
The stock valves are generally ok up to 7,000 rpm, but if you plan on going over that,
a valve kit is recommended. The valves used on the Trial Shop Car are $2434.95.
Stock valve springs are fine.

Compression for the kit is raised to 13:7.1 but it can be left at stock as well. The higher compression increases power but
would cause problems with lower octane gas.

Note: Quality of gasoline varies from country to country. The above stats were acquired with Japanese 105 octane gas.

a turbo GTS would kill a 350Z if it was tuned/driven properly.

those have seen 13.5, 13.3 with bad drivers.

So lets see, 30-35K + ~10K from celica, who knows there could be a new supra by then. That plus you wont have the depreciation of the two years in there. Thats ony if you dont mind blowing all the money. Otherwise go turbo. 150k miles on my old 89 supra and no turbo problems. Te turbine isnt even loose.

If a turbo is treated with respect and pampered then you have no problems with it, the problem is people who romp all around town or on the freeway then come home and just kill it in the driveway letting that hot oil bake the housing and compresser wheel.

people like thatdon't diserve a turbo,

and yeah a turbo celica can beat a 350Z, but just think with that kind of cash you could get a turbo Z

no ones even tried a 3zz conversion with american gas (89-93 octane) yet. trial said it will boost a stock celica to around 200 horses (sorry, havnt visited their site in awhile) but that was with japanese 108 octane gas. just something to think about.

speed4theend - actually there is a shop in NY that claims to have done the 2ZZ-GE STROKER KIT NOT THE "3ZZ"

i'm confused trial does indeed make a 3zz engine right (old engine plus new crap). or are you saying that trial only actually makes the 2zz ge stroker kit?

yea, go with XS turbo.

sell ur car, put it in government bond for 2 years. when you come back, put all ur money together and get something nice.
there will be nicer cars out there in 2 years. maybe celica will be better

I've raced one of the guys in my unit. He has a nlube 350Z, its a nice car.. err great car to drive, but its seems alittle bulky compared to the celicda, also I love the way the celica handles and feel agile. I wanna keep my celica, I could sell it and go for an evo or something, but this is my current project car.
My current parts are...
Fiber Images Carbon Fiber hood W/ raised Carbon Fiber hood scoop
Megan Racing spoiler
Excel gunmetal racing rims
Brembro cross drilled/slotted rotors
knight decal in black, and silver(think fast and furious)
H&R springs
AEM CAI
TRIAL headers 3rd Gen
Full thermal wrapped exhaust
TRD exhaust
Hyper ground wires
Aluminum floor mats
inverted color gauge overlay
tach w/ shift light
TRD short shifter
blue LED fuel/engine temp display
Street glow gold series under carrage, (white)
Momo steering wheel with Carbon Fiber center Hub


I am aiming on a body kit from veilside, replacing spoiler with a TRD one with a Carbon Fiber center, momo seats, struts frnt & back, frnt& back struts, High perf. raidiator, trial oil cooler aannnddd finaly a super charger
I love my headers and don't like drillin and butcherin up my celica tooo much, and str4oker kit seems too unpredicable and new, I wanna have dynos and test up before I do it myself.
Anyone know the dyno number between the trial supercharger and Blitz???
thank you for all yer info! even if most of it was for a 350z!

XS...I'll have one installed by the end of the summer this year.

with that much in it, i would prob stick with the celi too, your car sounds great, can't wait to see what it looks like when you get the new stuff done, mine should be started and half way done by then. those sound like great plans, go for it

build the tranny and engine up really good, with new pistons, valves, port &polish...yada yada, and get the XS turbo kit, then get a GT300 body kit and some 18's, and you will have one of the nicest celicas in america

jasonwaaa -

Here is a dyno of a car with the Blitz supercharger with the Trial header and Trial exhaust.



To answere your question about Trial SC vs Blitz SC - Trial actually doesn't make a SC for the Celica, the supercharger that Trial sells you is in fact the Blitz.

The Blitz SC comes with piggy back ECU fuel management and is tuned to run on euro spec gas and emissions. To this day, I don't think that Blitz has ever released a version of their kit that is meant to work in the states. Because of this, Trial has taken the Blitz kit and tuned it with a full stand alone Apexi Power FC to make the kit work in the US. When you buy a Trial SC, you are getting the Blitz SC and an Apexi Power FC that is pre-tuned to work on your car. I'm not sure what other changes were made, if you want Blitz SC you should get it through Trial because they have already gone through all the work of making it work in the USA.

Another possability is getting a SC from Japspeed racing. They are a small company based in the UK. Their super charger is not marketed for sale in the US because they think that we are too cheap to pay for their super charger set up. However, I've talked to the owner and he told me that they would make special arrangements to sell a US compatable SC for around $7000, if you are interested you should talk to him. He claims around 300 bhp and uses a Jackson SC.

His web site: http://www.japspeed-racing.co.uk/index.html

His Email: Simon.Smith@celica-club.co.uk

His SC set up:

Hope that helps.

I think that the reason that Steven is really pushing for people to refer to Trial's 3ZZ kit as the 2ZZ-GE stroker kit is because Trial was shockingly ignorant when they named their kit.

This is because Toyota actually makes a 3ZZ engine. It's an economy minded engine designed to be frugal for high gas prices found out side of the US. It makes well under 100 HP. Stupid on Trial for inadvertently naming their performance 2ZZ stroker kit after what is perhaps the weakest economy engine in Toyotas line up.

holy shit, if that 300 bhp is true that would be incredible!!! especially because the power loss in the celica is very small...at least stock...

oh allright. thank you. i wasnt exactly sure what steven was trying to say, but now i understand. that is pretty ignorant. i didn't know toyota (or is it yamaha) made a 3zz engine..i had only heard of the trial "3zz".

thanks for the headsup

earlier in this post, i noted that superchargers are usually more reliable, but offer slightly less power than a turbo.

turbos then, can produce more power, but are less reliable (many more moving parts = more can go wrong)

to re-enforce my point: ecelica.com: thread-my xs engineering nightmare

this is a current thread that i'm sure most of you already looked at. it's worth noting that this most probably wasnt installed correctly and the fault may not lie totally with the turbo, but it illustrates just how fragile things can be.

^^ that is very true

Ahh, the classic, "Which is better? Turbo or SC?"

Actually superchargers work on behalf of pullies which are moving parts and turbos don't. The only moving parts of a turbo are the two turbines in side the turbo housing. A supercharger also has a similiar design of a compressor.

Now to the reliability aspect. Smaay's problem came from the mere fact that XS gave him a faulty turbo manifold. So far, he was the only one experiencing such a problem out of all the other XS turbo kit owners.

bump

what i wanna know is why people always say, get another car, get a 350z or some shit...if he wanted a new car dont you think he would have said "guys i dont know what to trade my car in for , should i get..??" so seriously when he says what should i do to my car, i dont think he said he wanted another car. help the guy out...btw good luck ou there bro, go kill some iraqi bitches for me.

hehe I understand why people would reccomend a new car, man y peeps are like that when I start swingin money figures around.
But Hey I love my celica and its my new project car. Hell I'm gonna keep this bitch until after I get out of college.
Its sad, by the time I come back from Iraw, I will be almost 21 and not started college yet.
Last thing I wanna do is go off to UTI automotive in phoenix in a stock car!!!
I'll be sure to mail you an ear;)

i don't understand anytime someone wants to do sumtin drastic to their car everyone yells get a different car.
Yet they whine because the aftermaerket isn't liek taht of the civic. if you want a 350z go buy one, this guy wnats to make his celica better adn i giv ehim props.



btw my choice would be for hte trial s/c i prefer a s/c over a turbo.

I agree, I don't think that reliability should really come into play when deciding between turbo charging and a belt driven super charging. Both are comparably reliable.

I think that the main difference between the two is going to be the way the power is delivered. With some thing that is belt driven, the power delivery is instant and the increase is equal across the RPM range. With a turbo, the power delivery doesnt come in untile a little higher in the RPM range because the exhausts need to move the turbine. The degree of this is directly affected by the size of the turbo you are using. A turbo is more efficiant because the engine doesn't have to use any engergy to turn the compressor, all the engery is scavanged from exhaust gasses.

Bottom line :

Turbo
+ Greater HP potential because there is no parasitic loss
- Possible turbo lag and/or unpredictable power delivery

Belt driven SC
+ Predictable power curve and instant low end power
- parasitic loss means that mod for mod, it will always make less power than a turbo

I think that hard core drag racer types should definitly get the turbo. If your more of a street cruiser like me, then the SC could possibly be a better choice. It has more low end power that you will feel during every day driving and it still gives you enough of an increase to beat just about anything.

A lot of people also say that SC's are better for track stuff like auto cross because of power predictabiltiy in the corners. IMO, a well tuned turbo isn't going to screw you in a corner, but I thought I would bring this argument up anyway.

^^ the xs engineering turbo is actually surprisingly very good on low-end torque. unlike many other turbos.

True. Perhaps it's because they were able to use a relatively small turbo that spools up really fast because the low peak boost used for the high compression GTS engine?

perhaps. this i do know, though:

at 2.8k rpms, the turbo produces an extra 30 lb/ft of torque
at 3k, 40 lb/ft
at 3.2k, 41 lb/ft
at 3.5k, 55 lb/ft

these are great down low #'s for a turbo.

this is something i said in a reply to another question a user had. it also applies here so i'll repost my info:

a few things about the blitz supercharger and the xs engineering turbocharger:

the cost of both is almost exactly the same($5,000)

with the xs turbo, you get peak horsepower of about 233 (in 50 state legal trim--you can get about 251 if you go illegal--no cat, etc)

with the blitz sc, you get peak horspower of about 199 horses. however, this figure was obtained by turbo magazine on an ecu that was tuned for japanese 100 octane gas. the american version of blitz will be tuned for 91 octane gas so the horsepower figure should be higher than this (probably not too much higher though)

the xs turbo runs at 7.5 psi
the above #'s for the blitz were at 6.3psi

with the supercharger..you get increases across the powerband.
with the xs turbo, you get more top end..but surprisingly for a turbo you get a lot down low (at 3k rpms, an extra 40 lb/ft of torque was added--unusual for a turbo and a testament to xs engineering's prowess)

The Blitz supercharger does not provide a constant amount of boost. I lowers the amount of boost as the RPM climb. In lift for example, the psi is only like 3 if i remember correctly.

The blitz s/c gives you a great amount of power right 1000RPM.

The XS turbo gives you quick boost which is essential. But the turbo also has to have enough boost to last you all the way up to 8400-8500 RPM.

See thats where I eekp running into a problem, thinbk I will still get 200 hp on my celica? Wouldn't the trial headers up the HP and tq? Also I could grab the cat back exhaust from Trial with the larger diamater to boost the power?
Anyone out there have a turbo or a supercharger in their car?
I am torn up the frame with decisions!
Also, does anyone know a part list or website for stronger internals?
I would be thinking the rods, and pistons would be the most important, but I have also heard that the valve springs are weak too...

just so you know i am just passing along information i got off here, i give credit to the members here, thanx all for helping me
anyways...
well fist you can't have headers with a turbo, and i don't think larger piping will help much with a turbo either(correct me if i'm wrong, i'm not real sure about that)
i'll add a link to site that sells rods and pistons, but it's not the springs thats the problem, ithink it will be fine, but "the valves are the weak point" according to trial, and they sell a valve kit for over like 2 grand, so go for it if you want, but i'm sticj with stock valves.

the pistons and rods can be foundhere [monkeywrenchracing.com]

yup, that's correct. sorry if i confused anyone with that. my quote was "the above #'s for the blitz were AT 6.3psi" referring to the best top end figure of 199 whp. (6.3 psi was the psi figure for the best top end output)

xs turbo