Celica Forums General Discussion Exterior 190hp Toyota Celica TRD Sports-M - What's the tweak?

I get this email quite often - just thought I would post it up here so that everyone can provide their feedback


10 hp is 10 hp

actually now that you've mentioned it...good question. the celis in japan run OVER 180 since their emissions laws are not as strict here. but the sport-m which is an upgrade to the GTS should have more power than the 180+hp on the stock GTS' there. hmmmm...

so the question is...how much hp is on the stock GTS celicas in japan compared to the stock Sport Ms? maybe from the hp diffreence we can assertain what causes the hp jump

It's the higher octane that Japan has. Also, their hp system is a little different and doesnt mean that they have 10 more hp. In reality, the difference is only a few hp which was made by the JDM ecu for that extra few horeses.

I thought octane had nothing to do with generating HP?

most of it is from the ECU

Japan Industry Standard (JIS) is the standardization organization in japan. After 1985, all JIS horsepoer ratings are the same as SAE ratings because JIS converted to SAE test conditions. For JIS net horsepower readings before 1985, mulitply the reading by 0.984 to get SAE net horsepower. In other words, after April 1, 1985,
JIS net Hp = SAE net Hp,
whereas before april 1, 1985:
JIS net Hp x 0.984 = SAE net Hp

SAE Net horsepower is the power an engine develops as installed in the vehicle. ex: stock air cleaner/filter, stock cooling fan, stock alternator, stock exhaust, full emmissions etc.

euro GTS is 192 hp.
We have 95 octane gas here too.
Probably a combination of higher octane and lower emission standards

yea but that doesnt mean you have 11 more hp than US celicas. Both continents don't use the exact same HP ratings.

Really?
I didn't know that, I know the torque is measured in Nm and in us in lbs/ft

In singapore you can get 97 octane at the local gas stations.

We've got 98 here too, but I don't know if that makes my engine run better

Hey guys, hopefully someone can answer this cause I'm not too sure about it. On another site,(new celica) I saw a dyno for a 00 GTS, and it's peak hp hit 181. There was no forced induction, and the guy had pretty much all bolt ons, but no exhaust, and had his accessory belt off.
I thought that without some kind of forced induction, you could not exceed the hp created at the flywheel? Anyone know?

Also, I don't know if this has been talked about on this site before, and I'm not gonna look cause I'm not starting a new thread about it(laziness), but could it be possible that the GTS' actually generate more than 180bhp but more along the lines of say 190bhp? I've been looking at stock dynos, and it just seems that not a lot of power is lost from the engine to the drivetrain. Maybe it's just because they are really efficient as people have said, but is there any proof that the engines weren't under-rated by Toyota?

What are you smoking? Turbo/Supercharging is not the only way to make more power, if you wanna stay the NA route then it's just amatter of more air, fuel and raising the compression, but I wouldn't raise the compression on a 2zz... already high as it is. I would get a larger headgasket(and metal, not sure if toyota is using metal in all their engines now or what.. they should after the problems with the 7M) and upgrade the piston rings as well as the valvetrain.

werd

the main reasons for differnce in hp between the two, jdm and us spec is the ecu tuning (its more agressive,fuel maps and timing they were tuned to run on a higher octane gas)and the fact that the jdm does not have an egr valve system.(the egr system dilutes the intake charge and robs hp.)On some of the older celicas esp turbo models the system was built into the head itself,this lack of egr in the head accounted for some hp in the jdm heads. its funny,i have seen some heads with the egr blocked off as if it was there but just blocked and i have seen some jdm heads that the egr was never a part of the design in the head!these heads might have a better flow advantage over those that were casted with provision for the egr system)i never checked the 7th gen us and the jdm to see where and how the egr system were on both of them cause it never came up.the exhausts on some jdm vehicles are different as well
ps: with the egr system that uses the vacuam hose to open the valve,i usually take the hose off and block it when racing so the valve does not open(this is for other cars i have never done it with my 7th gen celica cause its my "mobile office" and not my race car.

Just a question, settle the fuck down. I'm talking about power exceeding the bhp with NO ENGINE TAMPERING and just bolt-ons and minus a few parts. I'm not talking about fucking with the engine at all, just bolt-ons, and turbos/superchargers aren't the only types of forced induction.
I'm talking about the fact that I saw dynos where people exceeded the bhp with bolt-ons and without an accessory belt. I'm not passing shit off as fact so no need for you to get bitchy. It's called a question.

Hey Slidr, IMO Toyota is under rating the 2ZZ engine, I think that it is making a lot more than 180 HP. If you look at some of the other dyno's over there, there are quite a few stock runs that are putting down around 162 - 165 HP to the wheels. That would only be around 10% loss to the wheels if the engine were really only making 180 HP.

If you have an intake, exhuast, and header I think that it is pretty reasonable to expect 180 HP + to the wheels on a GTS.

the new lotus elise has the 2zz and its rated at 190hp.i read that they messed with the ecu and intake. every thing else is the same as the gts.

and with just bolt ons...you can easily gain 15hp...intake,header,pulley,and exhaust should give you at least that.

The TRD Sports-M comes with the TRD exhaust and air filter. There's your 10hp.

It was my understanding that they changed the gear ratios on the sports-M celica. It allowed the car to be shifted and stay in lift easier and could also effect it's power to the wheels possibly, but not off the fly wheel.

My question was simply, can the car exceed the 180hp that Toyota says it has with bolt-ons alone, and no forced induction?

Yes

Double yes.

the TRD sports-m (only right hand drive as only sold in the JDM market to begin with and hence quite different to the plain old GT-S) has around 210-215hp, this is due to an increase in compression from 11.5/1 to 13/1 thanks to the lightened forged trd pistons and the shorter conrods, theres also a plethora of other improvements such as the sort-shift 6spd trans with helical LSD with a 4.5/1 dif ratio,improved exhaust manifold coupled with a better cat-back resonator cold air intake etc ummm what else ...oh a seriously agressive fuel mapping on the ecu from TRD (which cant be bought) redline revs also now start at 9200rpm with cam lift starting at 6200rpm, much stiffer body thanks to an extra 140 weld points along the a pillar area? and alot of body weight reduced thanks to all sound deadening being taken out along with other things making it weigh around the 960[kg to 1000kg mark as opposed to 1200-1300kg as well as upgraded suspension (sportivo i think?)
octane makes no difference really due to the fact the engine was developed to specifically produce this power running on 91 octane, you will burn/damage your piston rings, manifolds etc etc

i know all this as i own a 2000 toyota celica TRD Sports-M myself and its quite a different machine, also ive had to say all this stuff to about a million people who think its just a average 7th gen celica or that their whatever is way better/faster and then i hit third gear and theyre in the dust lol