Celica Forums General Discussion Engine and Performance 400hp V8 vs. 400hp 4 cylinder

Sorry if this has been asked before, but if two cars are identicle in every way except one has a 400hp V8 and the other has a 400hp 4 cylinder, which car is faster? 400hp is 400hp right?
Trying to settle an argument with a Mustang owner.

The weight will make a ton of difference for sho, tires, rear wheel drive, all wheel drive, transmission, this thread is going to be fun

Mustang = ugly j/k some are nice
Celica = Hot

Mustangs...I like the car, not the drivers

Thanks iggy,
The argument I'm having with this guy is, if two cars are identiicle in every way, which one will win. Same weight, same gears, same driveline, etc...

I say "400hp is 400hp", the two cars would be the same.
He says "No, a V8 will win because it's a bigger motor"

Thanks Jtultra,
But not all Mustang owners are jerks, just seems like most of them are. I had a 69 Mach 1 that I loved. Just got tired of fixing it all the time.

Ok this is simple now, it's a drivers race then. I beat faster cars because I was a better driver lol. Very sad IMO that I could beat a vett with my 280Z but also funny.

Shit, forgot to mention same driver in both cars. Just trying to figure out which car would be faster.

eric...its like this buddy...the v8 has more displacement, and less RPM range...he will hit 400 hp at 4500 to 5000 rpm at the limit and have to shift...whereas a 400 hp 4 cylinder won't hit 400 hp until around 6500 rpm, but will be able to keep it going in a shorter gear for 2000 rpm after that...the v8 may take it off the line, but the 4 cylinder should win overall because it can stay at higher power in a lower gear for a longer period of time. Bigger displacement means more torque, and the power comes faster...generally a v8 has a redline of around 5000 rpm at the most, whereas a built 400 hp 4 cylinder (it would have to be built to stand that much boost) could rev until 8500 rpm, and in some cases even 9500 rpm...that should help sort things out...

^^^

Thank you very much Steve. I should have known you would know the answer to that one. I will definitely use that in my next argument with him.
Now I have one more question. He thinks his 96 Mustang is the shit. It's built and has about 400hp. He says there is no way my hamster powered little 4 banger will ever beat him, even after I do reach my 400whp goal for my Celica. Now I know that if I am able to reach 400whp, I will be spinning my wheels like crazy, while he will get better grip and take me off the line, but I think with him being so much heavier and me being able to rev higher, I should be able to take him.
What do you think?

ok if the mustang is rear wheel it has an advantage there since rear wheel gets the power down better but the wight in a mustang is a lot compared to a celica-so that on top of the rpm stuff will definately make this a drivers race but imo a full 1/4 mile the celica would win if the torque numbers are right since the torque is what will get you moving not the hp the hp keeps you moving

Thanks celicadragon,
We have both been racing cars for about the past 20 years or so. Not professionally, just for fun, so I'm not sure who is going to be the better driver. He does have the advantage there because he has had Mustangs forever and I have never driven a 400hp 4 cylinder.
I'll be sure to get lot's of practice at the track before I take him on though. This is one race I would really hate to lose. I would never hear the end of it.

Just tell him good race and to STFU Good Luck

I give up iggy, what does STFU stand for? I think I know what the "FU" stand for, but what about the "ST"?

eric...I recommend building your block with the monkeywrench internals, sleeving the block, and o-ringing the bastard to make sure it can handle whatever boost you want to throw at it...then I recommend a c2power tranny to hold the torque you will create, and a stage 3 turbo kit from him, only instead of going with the Garrett GT28RS turbo, you go with the GArrett GT30R turbo...its got a smaller turbine housing, but a bigger compressor housing...it spools faster and makes more power too...either that or go with the GT32 with either the 71mm or 76mm trim...its up to you...they are all good for around 500 hp...also, the Monkey wrench racing guys have their 1zz turbo MRS putting down 385 to the wheels, and 295 ft-lbs of torque...I think with the GT30R or the GT32 you might even break that if everything is built properly to withstand it

STFU = Shut The Fuck Up lol tell him that

Don't worry we are all 's at one time

Thanks Steve, I will be getting all my internals from MWR and a c2 tranny.
As for the turbo, it's too late. My car is in the middle of having a custom turbo kit installed right now. The last time I asked you, you said you didn't know much about turbos. Guess you been doing some reading huh?
Anyway, I took the shops advise and they are installing a Precision T3/T4 sc32 turbo, good for 480hp. What do think of Precision turbos?
I have seen MWR's MRS. I was so excited when I seen that, I even posted a topic on it awhile back.
That's why I'm making 400whp my goal. The 500whp Celica QTRMLR_1 told me about is a little too crazy for me. If I can hit 400whp, I'll be good with that.

Thanks iggy, yes I'm still a newb.

the one that weighs less and is geared for whatever your doing...

Thanks spaztikid. I like your sig by the way. I can't believe nobody said anything to him about that. Guess everybody figured "What's the use".

Thanks spaztikid. I like your sig by the way. I can't believe nobody said anything to him about that. Guess everybody figured "What's the use".

eric...precision turbos are nice too...I'm just omre familiar with the garrett line...MAKE SURE THAT when they build your block they SLEEVE the cylinders and O-RING the block...that way you won't have problems with blowing the head gasket when you trun up the boost

just beat him

Yes, I will definitely do that. I would like to go with the 2.0 kit. Think that's worth doing? Well not 2.0, but 1.9 something. I can't remember. The internals are going to have to wait a few more months. I've spent my limit for this year. Just trying to learn as much as I can before I start buying everything.

actually...I wouldn't bore...just purchase their piston and sleeve kit...that will set you straight as they come as a set...boring may leave the cylinder walls between each individual cylinder too thin...if you do bore (its been done safely) just make sure you sleeve it as that will help contain the boost without you having to worry about having problems due to high boost...

I figured I would have to bore if I'm going to reach 400whp. I wonder if MWR's MRS is bored. Do you know?

I wish I had the money to do the internals while it's in the shop, but after the turbo install, it's off to body shop, then the last stop is BDaudiocreations. After it get's out of that shop, the mods for this year will be like this...
Custom turbo kit, Precision T3/T4 sc32 turbo, down pipe, 440cc injectors, Greddy E-manage piggy back ECU, High Flow intercooler, Walbro 225 fuel pump, HKS BOV, 3" pipes from header back, N-1 exhaust, chrome spark plug cover, custom intake manifold chromed, painted engine plastics, NOS w/65 shot, 2 NX bottles, 2 NX remote bottle openers, RPS clutch, Fidanza flywheel, APR widebody kit molded on, TRD wing, shaved door handles, Sparco gas door lid, window tint, BRS Carbon Fiber hood, APR Carbon Fiber mirrors, Carbon Fiber wind splitters, Carbon Fiber canards, black Racing Hart CR wheels, Stoptech BBK, TRD coilovers, Tanabe strut bars, 18" Treo sub in molded fiberglass, Zapco 9.0 amp, 2 Zapco 3.0 amps, 2 Boston component set's, 2 SPL caps, 2 red top batteries, mini PS2, Kenwood head unit, Acuistic DVD player, 3 7" screens, chrome 4 point roll bar, chrome bars to hold NX bottles and amps, Greddy boost controller and turbo timer, boost, nitrous and egt gauges, Momo steering wheel, Black Corbeau A-4 seats w/ 4 point harnesses, TRD shift knob, painted dash and all interior plastics.
So I'll be pretty broke after all that is done.

Here is what the exterior will look like.

And the turbo set up is being ran the same as the Red Dragon's

i dont think that 2.0 kit is a very good thing to buy for the money and i heard its not very streetable

That's okay, it's not a daily driver anymore. The 2.0 kit would give it more power, right? What bad things have you heard about it besides not being good for daily driving?
Shit. I have to go. I'll be back later.

obviously v8 car will have more torque, so it will kill the 4.
but somehow if the 4 cylinder is modded like hell with a crazy turbo and all that, and if the torque is the same, then weight is another factor. now lets say the v8 is in the same car as the 4 cylinder, engine is gonna be bigger and heavier, and 4 cylinder tranny wont keep up with it and suspension will sag. now lets say everything is perfect, same weight, same hp and torque, 4 cylinder will have more of a challenge in order to keep up with the 8, 4 cylinder has to stay on peak rpm levels, shift quick and precisely. it wouldnt be much difference if both have the same wtq, whp and same weight somehow.
if there is such thing like that, i would still take the 4 cylinder over the v8

yeah, but he is referring to a bulit celica (very lightweight) vs a bulit (but fat) mustang

reliability is one thing

Thanks stefanoc. As for the tranny, I will be getting one from c2power and I bought TRD coilovers that I think are pretty stiff. Will those two things take care of the problem you were talking about?

celicadragon, that's a whole other argument him and I have. He things his Mustang is more reliable than my Celica. I don't think so.

mustang is a ford F.ix O.r R.epair D.aily

celica=perfect

Damn right!

for sho

I have been selling off all my toys to help pay for all this stuff. I still have the jet-ski for $3,500 if anybody wants it. It's an 1100 stx, perfect condition.

No, my wife is not for sale. Neither is my motocross bike. THAT I will never give up.

Hahaha my wife is for sale PM me for details, in fact I will give her to you for free. Must haul away, sorry I have a strict no returns policy.

Disclaimer!!!!!!!!!!!!

The wife works create what the husband envisions to effectively meet their needs. She will also provide professional advice on what will best help achieve success. However, the wife will not guarantee the financial success to anyone who she marries. The decision to get married is solely the decision of that person and Iggy or any affiliates, employees are not liable for any damages suffered as a result of that decision. All services performed by the wife are the financial responsibility of the husband once they decide to marry the wife, even if the end result does not meet expectations. Caution the wife can be hazardous to your heath and may financially cripple you so choose wisely.

I saw this episode of car and driver where they did track tests on tuner cars - there was a 400+HP golf, and it was faster then the stock Lambo Merciologo (??) with similar power but a V12.. it was also really close to the tuned Corvette engins, so forsure, it'd be way better then the stock ones.. I think a tuned EVO was the fastest one, I believe it was a 4 banger too - but closer to 500HP

You beat me to this point... Sad but true.

You can crunch the numbers all you want, but when it comes down to it, the V8 will own you 9 times out of 10, due to the fact that the V8 will have double the displacement, and gobs of torque throughout the powerband. Also keep in mind that V8 will start making power low in the revs, and reach peak power a lot sooner, due to a shorter rev range.

Sure, you can talk about forced induction, but it's only a way to help reduce the shortcomings of a 4-cyl platform, A 4-cyl will need to work twice as hard to make the same power a V8 does.

You can offset the torque differnce through weight reduction, better tires and a susension that will help your car put that power to the ground, but the sad truth is that any 4-cyl platform will be playing catch-up in terms of the amount of modification to make it on par with most v8 powered platforms.

Now, lets say we compare two cars of sililar performance levels; a Mustang GT to an STi. Both are pretty close to one another in terms of performance: both cars put down about 300 HP. The mustang lays down 320 Ft Lbs of torque while the STi puts down 300 Ft Lbs. of torque The STi weighs in at around 3298 Lbs. and the new mustang GT weighs around 3487 Lbs. the torque difference will offset the weight difference, so, they're evenly matched in terms of performance.

Out of the box, they will be evenly matched from the factory (we will not consider the cobra mustangs here) The AWD setup on the STi will pay off on the initial launch if both drivers are equally matched, however, turbo lag and lower torque band will see that gap shorten quiclky after that. Still the STi can win against a stock car, but the race would be interesting to see whoever wins.

With some exhaust work, headers and an intake, numbers on that mustang will vastly improve, However, an STI owner will be spending more for similar gains, since the STi is pretty hot from the factory. you will need a turbo upgrade, better intercooler, etc; the mustang, by contrast, has a lot of room for improvement on it's 4.6L modular engine; the STI powerplant has most of it's optimization done at the factory. lastly, that base-trim mustang GT will cost you less money to buy and build up than an STI.

It's not impossible, but it's also not as cost effective. Most import fans claim that almost any 4-cyl can be made to be more ferocious than it's 8-cyl forefathers, but I have seen little proof of this in reality, most of the time, a V8 will hand you your ass if you drive a 4-cyl, boosted or not (My mom's bone-stock, automatic, rusted and out of tune Cougar XR7 walking all over a DSM eclipse with $10K in turbo and other upgrades comes to mind)

Don't forget, V8 owners can go FI too, superchargers add a LOT to the performance of a V8 musclecar, since torque and HP is in ample supply from the get-go. In the end, it could be considered a losing battle most of the time.

If you want to take on a V8, displacement is your friend. Go with the biggest motor you can get. Nissan Sentra Sepc V has a big 4-cyl, and produces lots of torque. with the right mods, the weaker Spec V will beat a GTS celica, mostly because of that extra displacement and torque.

Part of the mystique of import dominance comes from cars like the Z cars and the supra, don't forget these cars come with 6-cyl engines, more displacement, and more torque.

THe last way to offset this difference is to play to the strong suit of the 4-cylinder engine: Rev range. A 4-cyl engine has the potential to rev much higher, and sustain those revs longer. Since a inline-4 achieves peak torque and HP in the high revs, making the motor rev faster, and get to the sweet-spot faster will help you out, knife-edging the crank, lightening the car up, and lightening and strenghtening the valvetrain will go a long way to do this. very few stock V8 engines can rev past 6K safely (except certain ferarris, corvettes or the motor in the mustang cobra R) this is your advantage. The one thing everyone can agree on; you need to beat on a 4-cyl to win in a race with a v8, keep those revs high, and keep the engine screaming to make the same power as the typical V8, which can lazily turn and still shred tires into clouds of smoke.

Of course, this all applies to the drag race, road racing would be another story, since the STi will corner and brake better than the mustang GT.

You need to look at car specs when thinking about building a car to take on a V8, don't look at peak HP numbers, because that's just the PEAK power, you need to check a dyno graph; does the car make 400 Peak HP? Where is it making that power? probably close to the redline. V8's will make peak power closer to the midrange, and will keep making that power up to redline. Also, don't neglect that torque curve, usually, torque decides who wins a race, not the HP numbers.

yeah, i have the issue. it's the supertuner challege. if you guys want, i can post up the specs on all the cars.

i dont really think the torque is that much of an issue when drag racing...

400hp on our car for example, is boosting at about 22-25 psi roughly...

from the time you launch till the time your hitting full boost should only be a split second...

now with a good lauch on DR's, a 1.8 60 foot can be achieved...

lets say for example we're running a mustang cobra... i think its gonna be pretty much even... his weight will ofset his torque advantage...

What about drivetrain loss? You get a lot more drivetrain loss on the F/F celica than you would on the F/R GT mustang.

You would only beat the mustang if the driver of said mustang could not control his wheel spin.

Also, new factory mustangs have some suspension upgrades that help in the 1/4 mile, such as a panhard bar from the factory to eliminate wheel hop and torquesteer.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but turbos don't solve everything. You're already talking about adding turbo, and if you're running 22+ psi of boost, you will need internal upgrades for it to hold up to the increased stress, all the while, the mustang will still be running NA, with just a couple bolt-ons and some ecu programming to make similar numbers. big difference in price here.

Torque plays more of a part than you know; you should talk to some streetrod owners, let them take you for a ride sometime, and you'll see what I'm talking about.

i know the joys of torque... one of my buddies has a s/c'd 98 cobra...

obviously the 4 cyl would have to be f/i and have internals...


i'm willing to bet money, that in a few months when jeff church runs his celica, you'll see some times you wont beleive...

the new stangs have a s/c stock... and yeah, they can get a good launch as well... i'd say somewhere like 1.4 - 1.6 on DR's...

but i still think the weight is gonna be more of an issue than the torque is in a drag race...

HAHA! iggy, you kill me. You better hope your wife doesn't see that. I laughed my ass off though. I feel your pain.

Thanks GTaintsobad, that gives me hope. Well, it did until I got to Rave669's post.

Thanks Rave669, That post was longer than some of GOLDCELICA's. Very good information though. What really sucks is, this guy I want to race also has his car torn apart right now and is adding a supercharger. I think I might be sucking a little.

Thanks combatc87, sure, that would be cool. Let's see it, if you don't mind.

spaztikid, you always give me hope. I still get nervous when I see your name on one of my topics, the way you yell at people sometimes. I never know if you're goiing to come on and call me an idiot or something. Thanks for not doing that.

damn do you realizes that a 400 hp celica will be doing 9-10's

the 400 hp v-8 will probably do 12

400 hp celica will also do 12's...

That would be nice if that was true EuRoBoGT, but I think 11's might be the best I could ever hope for. Not sure though. Plus mine will be a lot heavier than it should be, with all the chrome, sound system, etc...
I have more fun at shows than I do at tracks. You ever go to shows in Texas?

nothing can beat a celica, common you know this man

Okay, I guess 11's was wishing a little too much. I would happy with 12's.

Damn right REDDASHCELICA01, but only if you grade in more than drag racing. Like...Looks, style, handling, price, reliability, interior room, gas mileage, etc...

Hahaha badceli I'm serious. it's really not cool IMO, read it and let me know what you think of it.
https://celicahobby.com/ubbthreads/thread.f_1953355375_0_collapsed_5__1.html

Also I will offer you a double your bullshit back guarantee.

Well shit. Not sure what to say about all that. I can't tell if you're pissed or glad about it. I have been there and done that before. Always works out in the end.

I'm pissed, but trying not to let it bring me down, so what happened do tell, you can PM me about it if you don't want to share it with the world.

There isn't enough time in a day for me to tell you all my stories. Some day we'll have to sit and drink all night and I'll tell you some stuff that will make you say "Damn, that is one messed up life you have had there".

the celica looks better anyway

Damn right!

Now you say "For sho"

Okay iggy, I'll tell you one quick one if it will make you feel better.
About 17 years ago, I was dumped by a girl I loved and was going to marry. After that, I said to hell with relationships, I have my motocross bike and I'm going to be the next World champion.
So a couple years past and I had been without a girlfriend for a long time, when I finally met a great girl. We had been together for a few months when I had to take a trip to do some training with the Special Forces in the Army for a month. Couldn't wait to get back to see her again.
When I got back, I went to her house and knocked on the door, she opens it and says "Oh, you're back, ummm this isn't really a good time". I said "Why not?". She says "Because my old boyfriend has moved back in with me and we are back together again, sorry".

ok that does sux, that must have ripped your heart out Glad to see you found a good one this time

Yup. I do have a good one now. Can you believe an old dork like me actually got a young, rich, model to marry me? Had to go to Germany to find her, but things are pretty good now.
I just noticed that you look exactly like my little brother and he does pretty good with the girls, so I'm sure you will be okay.

Now let's go back to talking about cars before somebody asks us what the hell we are talking about.

QTRMLR_1 said he's going to come on here and give me his take on this topic. You know he is a die hard racer. Anybody that strips out their interior to shave another fraction of a second off their 1/4 mile is definitely a die hard.

Got one more question on top of this one.
How do I reach a higher top speed? Does the c2power tranny come with a longer final drive? What would be a guess on what kind of top speed we could reach with this tranny? Sorry if I sound like an idiot, I don't know anything about transmissions.

i believe final drive is not in the tranny, it's in the differential. maybe (read: likely) i'm wrong

No. You might be right on that. Will somebody who knows jump in here before I say something else stupid?

I really have to run now and do something, so I don't have time to post up some stuff I found on the topic of this thread. But to answer your question, I found this on the c2power website:

"We have a COMPLETLY NEW INSIDE (all gears, final drive, LSD) from Chromly-molibidenium (as strong as possible material). from 1-6 gears teeth are straight cut to hold as much torque as possible."

And in the chart the final drive in the C2 GT 6spd tranny is unchanged from the Toyota GT at 4.312. So the top speed is not increased.

http://www.c2power.com/?menu=3&submenu=1&id=5

Well that's good information. Can't wait to see what you found out on the other topic.

So how in the heck do we increase our top speed?

look just use this 1/4 mile calcultor

http://www.battleoftheimports.com/classes/battlecalc.htm

i know it wont be exact but it is close

and 400 hp from a 2500 lbs car (celica) does the 1/4 in 10.7 (acording to the website)

a 400 hp car from a 3500 hp car (mustang v-8) does in in about 12 seconds

that doesn't take into account things like the launch, RWD vs. FWD, etc. If the Celica is still FWD it'll have a hard time putting that to the ground on the launch, while the Mustang won't have as hard a time.

not gonna read through 3 pages so If this has been said then sorry lol

400 hp vs 400 hp is a stupid arguement to begin with. You might as well argue which weighs more a ton of feathers or a ton of bricks. in the end it's still a ton.

now 8 vs 4 cylinders doesnt matter. 400 hp is 400 hp.

now the who will win a race will be decided by the following OTHER factos which need to be included in the arguement to make it a valid discussion.

1) are we talkin RWD, AWD, FWD?
2) what kinda torque does each car have?
3) what gearing and transmission does each car have?
4) whats the weight of the car?
5) are we talking N/A or turbo power? (elevation would affect a N/A motor more then F/I)

then you'll have to take into consideration driver skill. All you can do with the question you asked is hear opinions. and in the end it will come down to a real race to determine the outcome. It's the only way to know. even then the next race could come out different.

^word up, same with the powerband talk, if the driver knows how to drive it right and keep it in high revs it shouldnt have a problem with keeping on a low end powered car. i think the celica could take it, being its lighter then if you had a 400 hp street interior celica vs 400 hp street interior stang. the fwd i believe loses LESS power in the drivetrain but i could be wrong.

Thanks euroboygt, I wish it was that easy. That would be great.

Thanks renfield90.

Thanks Lucky_317,
No problem. You don't have to read all three pages. You're more than welcome to tell me your opinion, even it has been said. In fact, if you did try to read it all, you would fall asleep because iggy and I got off topic and talked about the girls that have dumped us before. That went on for about a page.
Anyway, you're the first one to say 400hp is 400hp. Sorry, I didn't think it was a stupid question. Since the two engines are so different. You will have to excuse me, I'm not very bright and will be asking more stupid questions in the future. So if you see me ever start another topic, you might as well just figure "Oh shit, not this dumbass with another stupid question". Sorry.

Thanks eric_h.

C.E.L.I.C.A. = Car Every Lady Intrigues Captivating Alot
makes no sense, but the abbreviation makes it good

Thanks for telling me it made no sense stefanic because I was feeling really stupid trying to figure out what it COULD mean. Good try though.

One more question on top of all my other questions.
This is how my turbo kit is being done right now. Does anybody see a problem with the way this is set up? Performance wise?

2

3

So there is a few questions I'm still trying to figure out..

1. Is a 400hp V8 the same as a 400hp 4 cylinder?

2. How do we increase the top speed of our cars?

3. Is this a good way to set up a turbo for performance?

i no longer have my celica...bought a mustang instead to haev as a dailt driver..lol
so OUCH. hehe

Hahahahah read it some are nice lmao

just get the race setup and tell us the out come but this does come down to the torque figures more than anything else in the engine

eric...the way to increase the top end is through the c2 tranny...he posted on the other site about it...gears 1-4 are straight cut, adn the same gearing as the GT original 5 speed, but 5th and 6th gears are open...he had it built this way because he could ONLY hit 270 km/h, and had a lot more juice left...pm him or go to the other site...or shoot them an email on their site...last time I talked to him I was left to understand that this is the way it is setup

celicadragon, it's going to be a few more months before I can take him on. My car is about to come out of the shop with the turbo, but I have to save up some more money over the next few months before I pull the engine and do the internals. I won't be able to beat a built Mustang with just a turbo. Just trying to learn all I can until then.

Thanks Steve, I'll look through his site and see if I can learn something about his tranny, because I don't know what that means when you say "5th and 6th gears are open" I'll have to ask him what his top speed is too. I'm really curious now.

I'm sorry but unless you're spending a crap load of money on full internals and some awesome tuning you arent gonna have 400 hp when you're car is out. granted I dont know what setup you're running but I would be willing to bet you wouldnt dyno 400 whp.

since you didnt listen to my first post heres the easy breakdown.

So there is a few questions I'm still trying to figure out..

1. Is a 400hp V8 the same as a 400hp 4 cylinder? YES. 400hp = 400hp so doesnt matter how ya get there.

2. How do we increase the top speed of our cars? get more power. this is an easy one.

3. Is this a good way to set up a turbo for performance? I'm guessing you dont know much about performance. you're tuning on the kit will be more important then the placement. If you trust the shop to do the work then you should trust the way they are installing it.

Thanks Lucky_317,
I WILL be spending a crap load of money. So far I have about $60,000 into it and I'm only about half way done with this project.
I did listen to your first post and I appreciate your input. I just like to get everybodies opinion too. That's why I still ask. Plus I'm just really bored sitting in this damn country for a year. That's why I bug you guys so much. The guys in my platoon sure as hell don't want to sit around and talk about Celicas.
You're right about me not knowing much about performance. Thank you for pointing that out. My brother calls me Wax Boy, because that's all I know how to do to my car.
I know the placement of the pipes is not important. Just want to make sure everything is perfect. I do trust my shop, but I think the experts on here might know some things about our car that they don't.
I hope you didn't think I was being a jerk when I replied to your last post. I was just kidding around with you. Sorry if it wasn't funny to you. Thanks again for your post.

so, if I read that right you've spent $60,000 on a celica GT for just a turbo? I'd really like to see a break down of what you're putting in there cause for that much money you could buy 2 GT's + push one up over 300 whp and prolly still have some left over.

No, it's a show car. The engine is just part of what I have spent.