Celica Forums General Discussion Engine and Performance Fully built race engines for $4995

Just noticed that MWR has these. What do guys think? My Celica only has 30,000 miles on it. Would it be better to get this or build the engine I have. They charge $455 to install it and the core charge is $1000 for my 1zz.

I see c2gas is on here. I would really like to hear your take on this.

Here you go http://www.monkeywrenchracing.com for those who haven't seen it.

what kind of other stuff do you need to support the car?

will stock tranny stand up to the new horsepower?

what kind of gas does it need to run on?

if it needs 100+ octane where will you get the gas?

these are a few factors you need to think about. usually more mods cost you more money and more trouble. for this motor to be swapped in, you should make the celica a full track car.

Thanks Kim,
For a minute a thought you were asking me these questions. Then I realized that you must know the answer and were just telling me to think about these things.
As for making my car a full track car, I'm afraid that's not good enough for me. I want it all. Show car, drag racer, circuit track racer and streetable. Yes, it will be extremely hard to build a car to do well at all of these, but that's what I'm going for.

So, what do you think about getting the built engine from MWR compared to building it myself? When I say "myself" I mean getting all the parts and having a shop install them.

As for the tranny handling the power.. the Hotchkis Race Car has 300hp and it runs the stock tranny..

what r the gains? any dynos of these fully built "race" engines?

"its about 20 hp, just buy an exhaust instead"

you choose the compression...so if you were going to turbo your car, you would buy a completely built engine to hold the tolerances, with the lower compression wiseco pistons

8:8:1

yup...and with the sleeves and a good o-ring job, you could use a pretty serious turbo

if you go for the N/A setup I don't think it'll be worth the money.

very nice to see they are at least offering it though

Well.. A fully built race engine means what it means. The question is more like do you need it?

I allways like to go step by step and try to match what I need. Ofcourse I need more and more (power), but it also means that I learn to handle it more and more.

So would you use that engine on the high potential of it? becouse that would mean a turbo kit as well 3-4k, a trnny 4k. and then you want to stop and keep it on the ground for an other 2,5k.

I love the potential of my car, but I usually run on 14psi and not more. It is a lot of stress to run over 1 bar. The car becomes a beast who just doesnt want to do what you want from it.
So basically the fun factor becomes less!!!!

But if you do know that you want that it seems to be a cool price.

Insane power could be fun if you have a deathwish. But really you have to wonder about pro racers...they get kicks out of driving right on the edge of losing control trying to max out the performance of a beast. Sounds like fun.

HJC_Celica, tru, our tranny will handle 300hp, but if you spend the money on one of these engines, your going for more than just 300hp. You can just add a turbo to your stock engine and get that. I'm going for 400whp. Which I will need a tranny from c2power to handle that.

CelicaRacer05, that was a good one. I'm sure you were just kidding, right?

Thanks Steve, I knew you would know about these. So do you think it is a good deal?

Lucky_317, you're right there. I wouldn't get one if I didn't have a turbo.

c2gas, thank you very much. I always hang on your every word. To answer your first question, yes, I really need it. There is no half ass job that will make me happy. All or nothing.
I will definitely use the engine to it's highest potential. I just hope it can handle me. You make some damn good power with your car, but I'm afraid that's not good enough for me because I have to go one step more than what has been done. If the record is 386whp, than I need 400.
I do have a turbo and I will be getting a tranny from you soon.
I don't agree with you on the fun factor becoming less. When you said the car becomes a beast, I got all excited. I can't wait. I sold my sport bike because it will only do 165mph, that bored me. I need one that will do 200mph.
Thanks again for your post.

QTRMLR_1, you know I'm with you on this one. So would you get the engine?

LOL Actually I sold my R1 and started to miss it, so I had to build my car to feel like a bike.
I am not saying its not fun, I am saying too much power can disturb ( mainly the front driven power does it). It disturbs me for sure.

yeah FWD and RWD both have their "fun" factor, but they're different in the way the beast goes down. FWD is fun in trying to keep control of the steering on the full-throttle gear shifts. RWD is fun in hoping your car doesn't veer off and smash into a wall when you take off on two wheels and steer with none!

c2gas,
So does it feel like your R1 did? I have never driven a 2500 pound car with as much power as yours has.

QTRMLR_1,
I'm sure you know the silver Celica who did the 3SGTE swap and made 500hp. He said the shop that did his swap is working on an AWD conversion for our cars. Have you heard of this?

Well surely not the same acceleration, but the feeling and the adrenalin level is just the same in it. So it fully replace my ex "drog".

Nice. While I have you here, I have been trying to find out how to increase the top speed of my Celica. AZZKIKR said your tranny will do that. Can you tell me the top speed of your car?

Also, you said 4k for a tranny. I'm guessing you mean for yours right? If so, If I order one from you now, how long until I would get it?
Sorry, I'm sure you have asked this stuff a million times, but I'm going to keep bugging you as long as you let me.
Just so you know, I'm not just a looky loo. I have about 60k into my Celica and I will be putting about another 50k into it in the next couple years.

badceli you sound like a crazy rich ass adrenaline junkie to me...but your drive is cool. Go out and be the best...but don't kill yourself.

LOL!!! Thanks sbocaj55. Damn that was funny. I wish I knew how to put that in a sig.

Like c2gas said.Too much power and you have to look at the road all the time.My friend have a740kg, 370hp toyota starlet.It is all over the road.
Finn.

Thanks Celica_turbo. Sounds like fun to me.
I love your car by the way.

badceli, you increase the top speed by increasing the final drive ratio. For example if it's 4.312 you increase it to a higher gear of 3.0 for example. But that slows your acceleration so you'll hit the "top" speed later. Your theoretical top speed is fine with a final drive with 4.312 which is also the same in the stock GT tranny. With the extra power you'll be hitting higher speeds sooner of course. But as far as the "top" speed you want I don't know. What speed are you thinking of?

According to this website: http://www.f-body.org/gears/ your theoretical top speed in 6th gear is 173 mph redlining at 7000 rpm (and with 205/50/17 tires). That 6-speed is the C2 tranny for the GT.

With a Final Drive of 3.0 you can theoretically hit 249 mph in 6th, with all the same stuff mentioned as above.

But if you don't have the power, not only will you get up slow, you might not have the power to hit that theoretical gearing speed due to wind resistance and rolling resistance.
Going downhill helps yes, and so would a wind at your back as opposed to the other way, but of course there's still air resistance.

Personally I wouldn't change the final drive ratio unless you make around 650 hp.

Why does the McLaren F1 which has 680 hp and has a top recorded speed of 240.3 mph only do the quarter mile in 11.5 s? The answer is that it has a final drive ratio of 2.37.

Outstanding. That is what I was looking for. 173mph will be just fine. I just wanted something that would get the heart pounding when I have an open stretch of freeway in the middle of nowhere. 173 should do that just fine. Thanks. You are the man.

Of course if somebody comes out with a custom 7 speed for our cars, that would be great too.

you do know that you have to send your engine in to them right do you have another ride to get around in, oh shit your from texas you can just ride horseback everywhere till you get your engine finished

That's pretty funny JSPITZ, but I don't live on a ranch. Yes, I have a few cars and trucks. I didn't put them in this painting because they are not red.

But now that you mention it, that was going to be my next question. I would like to just ship my car to MWR and ask them to do the swap for me.
They say they charge $455 to install the engine. I wonder what they would charge to pull mine out and just do the swap? Figured I would see if any of you know before I write to them and have to sit and wait on an answer.

These engine packages are the 'start' if not finish of one badass motor. 10,000rpm capable 11.5:1 (stock 2zz compression) or a 8.8:1 low compression for a badass turbo setup. I think 5k is a good price..

$4995
-1800
$3195

for one badass 2ZZ, just get a PFC to be 10k rpm capable. Should be able to make power all the way with the right fuel map.

Thanks Death. That sounds funny "thanks Death". Where did you read that about the 10k rpm? It doesn't say much on the site.

thanks, badceli. just always trying to help.

guys, he has a 1zz and I don't think he plans to switch.

Yeah I think that's a good price if all goes well as it should since MWR is experienced with 1zz's and 2zz's. If you're going to go through MWR I would have them do the entire engine removal, build, and drop-in. You don't want them to blame you for anything or blame anyone else you hire in case something doesn't work right.

I noticed the 5k-ish price doesn't include cylinder head port and polish as that looks like it would be an additional $600 from the info on the website.
Another issue is the quality of the port and polish of the cylinder head. I don't know how good MWR is in that area, but the skill definitely varies from place to place. In general, it is very easy to make the flow worse. It is very important to have the "before" and "after" flowbench test results to compare. Does MWR do this? I don't know.

I wish we could get somebody from MWR to come on here so we could all pick their brain for a day. That's another thing I like about c2gas. He comes on each Celica site to answer our questions. That's just good business. Sure we could write to MWR and ask them all the same questions we all want to know and they could answer them a million different times, but why not just come on here.
I'm going to write to them and ask them if they will send a rep to come here once in sometime.
Now if c2gas had this engine, I would by buy it from him. Getting it to him would be the problem.
I will ask MWR for a before and after flowbench test result. Of course I don't what would be good, so I'll need your help with that if I can get it. As for the quality of their work, anybody who build a 1zz to put out the hp they did, has to be good, right?
So what about this 10,000 rpm's that "Death" is talking about, ever heard of that?

Sorry I said that wrong. It's decrease the ratio to a higher gear. Just thought I would point it out first just in case any one of you nitpicks like me point it out.

I don't think anybody would have mentioned it. We knew what you meant. So what about this 10,000 rpm thing? I'm not having any luck researching that.

Yes it would be nice if MWR had a rep on this site considering how many times their company gets mentioned on here as far as a source for internals and other stuff. Matt from MWR does go on the other celica site though and gives his opinions. Now C2Gas is just awesome. He runs a shop full time but still comes on here to give advice and help us out. He doesn't need to as his reputation has sent us to his website anyway with many beginning to place orders.

hmmmm...10,000 rpms...that definitely sounds like death. He was talking about it on a GTS. I'm not saying it's impossible, but there IS risk even if you prepare all you can by going titanium valves, ti retainers, valve springs, forged connecting rods, etc. And that would only be for an All Motor application. With a turbo, you have no reason to go close to that rpm.

Well now I really have a bone to pick with MWR. I didn't know he goes on other sites. Doesn't he know that this is the best damn site on the internet. Even if it does go down sometimes. It's still the best group of people. All the other sites do is sit and call each other idiots.
Anyway, I thought 10,000 rpms sounded a little high. Just checking. That would be one hell of a screemer though.

Yes for sure. And imagine that with a straight pipe. But you would only be able to enjoy the music for so long until...silence...

I'm sure you're right. I'll stick with the redline I have now.
silvergt300 just sent me a pm. I'm trying to get him to stop by more often right now so I can pick his brain. Does that guy have nice car or what?

what's the rev limit on a GT?

yes I just saw a pic of silvergt300's car. that is fine.

What?!!!! There is something that you don't know?!!!! How can this be?

One of my friends has a GT but he's a bit paranoid of hitting the rev limiter, so we don't know where it is. 7000 rpm? more?

well at least I know what it is on GTS's depending on year.

Actually I don't know the exact number either. I know it makes it's 140hp at 6400 rpm, but I'm not sure what the rev limiter is set at. Shit. Now I have to look that up real quick.

MWR does run his 1zz up to 7440 rpm, but that's with the PowerFC which can adjust all limits.

Damn! 7440, that's pretty high for a GT. Now I have to find out if I can do that with my Greddy E-Manage. There is so much shit I don't know about. I need to just sit down and start researching all this stuff.
I spend too much time jumping from subject to subject. Shopping for wheels, engines, turbo parts, sound systems, brakes, coilovers, body mods. Hard to sit still and focus on one thing.
You just be sure to tell me when I'm bugging you too much. I'll leave you alone for now.

I can honestly say that MWR is the shop right now for 1zz-2zz work. Their MR-S was at something like 350+ hp. They broke the record as far as everyone knows in reguard to the power output of a 1zz. I didn't read 10k rpm anywhere, but when I ordered my PFC from them about six months ago they told me over the phone that they had taken the stock valve train up to 9k with no problems. After sleeving the block and installing MWR valves and valve springs it would a walk in the park for that engine. Too bad the PFC only lets you program a fuel map up to 9,999rpm. I'm sure the engine could take more abuse than that.

Oh ya, as far as a 1zz with all this work. Thats gonna be one badass turbo motor, all you would need to complete this setup would be c2gas's gearset.

The rev limiter is set at 6700 rpm on the GT. If the engine is modded the rev limiter can safely and easyly modded to 8000 rpm.
I have mine there. But I messed up the valves before I got the stronger ones (springs as well) from MWR.
Our trannies are modified for stronger cars, mainly for boosted ones. We modded each gear ratio and the fibal gear as well. The top speed is set at 187mph on both the GT and the GTS.
I have done ~168mph with stock tranny. Hard to tell as there are no marks on the tacho. Was trying to catch (impossible) a Hayabusa. Well I could not catch him but shocked him for a couple of minutes. He just could not believe (as he turned his had all the time).
MWR is showing up on other forums, you should tell him it worth to come here as well. Contact Matt he is a nice guy there.
And yes i meant our ranny with the 4k USD.

c2gas, you are the man. Everytime you tell a story like that, I get all excited. No, not in a sexual way. You know what I mean. I can't wait to finish this project and try this sucker out.
187 mph! That is so awesome. If I can reach my 400whp goal, do you think I will be able to hit that 187 mph? I can't tell you how exciting that would be for me to fly by a corvette at 187 mph. Can you imagine the look on their face? They would be like, WTF!!! Was that a damn Celica?!!!!

Yes I m sure you can ( I mean tacho cheked speed). BUT please consider you have to have real good suspension and spoilers to keep it on the ground!!!

That is oustanding. I have TRD coilovers and I am shopping for sway bars right now.
This is how my exterior will look when it comes out of the shop in a couple months. Except it will have an unpainted BRS Carbon Fiber hood, shaved door handles, Sparco gas lid and a TRD wing.
You think this will handle 187 mph?

Sorry Death, I didn't mean to ignore you for a minute. I get carried away when I'm talking to the master c2gas.
Anyway, the exact number is 384.4 whp and does the 1/4 mile in 11 seconds.
Yes, I will be getting a tranny from c2power.

About MWR having the record hp, that brings me to my next question for you c2gas. How can you let MWR top you like that? When will you push for 400 whp? Or do you plan to go higher than that?

Ahh man!! That is soo lovely. I am big fan of the apr wide body.
Yes it should, but I think you will not go and test it on top speed right away.HUH? So I mean you will see if it handles good. if not then you will adjust the susp and go again. well thats how I did it (the safe way). And the when its all good =====> Floooooor it, and push out his eyes.

One more question. If it will do 187 mph, it can't be that much harder to get another 13 mph out of it and hit 200 mph.
Now that is a number I would feel pretty good to brag about. Not that anybody would believe me without proof. Even if you showed them some kind of proof, they would still call bullshit. Not that I care if some dumbass believes me or not.
Anyway, how much harder would it be to get that extra 13 mph?

You know as the speed is higher and higher the power is lineary has to be more and more. I have to look at the tranny ratio if its phisically possible or not. Also important how and what rpm your peak power will be.
I will loook at it. Cant answer now.

Thanks c2gas. That means a lot to me that you like it.
Of course I will test it little at a time. By the time this project is done, I will have over 100k into it. I'm not going to risk messing all that up.
I won't even risk driving it in traffic very much. I will take it from show to show in an enclosed trailer, but I will definitely take it out for some fun all the time. Here are my goals with this car...
1. Win Best Of Show and beat Bob Mull just once.

2. Run an 11 second 1/4 mile.

3. Win, or at least do well in one circuit race.

4. Keep it streetable.

5. Win a sound off competition.

6. Hit 200 mph (new goal)

Thank you very much for checking on that for me. If I can pull all of this off, I will give you a lot of props to everybody that asks.

if you're going to use it N/A why on earth would you leave it at 11.5 compression? minimum I would say you should go would be 12.5:1 13:1 would be better but would be hard to run daily. at 12.5 you could still easily use 91 octane.

if you're going to use it N/A why on earth would you leave it at 11.5 compression? minimum I would say you should go would be 12.5:1 13:1 would be better but would be hard to run daily. at 12.5 you could still easily use 91 octane.

if you're going to use it N/A why on earth would you leave it at 11.5 compression? minimum I would say you should go would be 12.5:1 13:1 would be better but would be hard to run daily. at 12.5 you could still easily use 91 octane.

whoa man triple post, setting a new record for that man?

Brashboy sells 13.7:1 pistons. But turbocharging will be cheaper to reach big hp numbers. I think the APR widebody will weight it down more than anything. c2gas is just trying to tell you that the stock suspension isn't going to cut it if those are your goals. Something like a tein coilover setup with the EDFC.

^^^^^ the edfc cannot be used on our cars because the motors do not fit under our cars with the coilovers..I've already looked..and tien says they cannot be used on our celicas on their application charts

^^ Did you talk to tein directly or call them? I believe seeing that EDFC can be used on the application chart, both on the website and in the printed catalog. I believe it's in a seperate table with the SS having pillowball upper mounts.
http://www.tein.com/sspdamp.html

part number EDKU3-12140

Also, I think a few guys on the other Celica site mentioned they had EDFC.

Too late, it's been done.
























haha kidding, that's kmh.

^^ done by badceli? those are his goals.

Thanks Death. So are you saying the TRD coilovers are not good? As for the weight of the APR kit, I don't mind. I love that kit and the place I have the most fun is at car shows. Just trying to make mine the fastest show car that is possible for a Celica.

Good one Rob. You had me going for a minute, but if somebody else does any of my goals before I do, that's okay. I don't care if I'm the first. Just trying to build a nice car. That's all.

Thanks QTRMLR_1. I guess I could have just said what you did and made this post a lot shorter. By the way, I have another question for you.

Will our axles handle 400whp? If not, how do I solve that problem?

they should handle it...email matt @ monkey wrench racing about that one

Thanks Steve.
Have you ever asked Matt why he doesn't come on here like c2gas does?

he's busy I guess...gas runs an advertising company from what I can tell...and all matt does is work at the monkey wrench race shop...they are both tremendous people to put such effort into our cars, but I think that maybe gas has more cpu time than matt

Cool.
What do you think about a Celica hitting 200 mph? Think it's possible with the engine from MWR, a c2power tranny and a turbo?
c2gas said he would check on that for me. Can't wait to see what he comes up with.

Oh sh..t I forgot to check the ratios. I will...

Well I am usually spend my mornings and nights at my PC at home, and check it sometimes daily in the office.
I have a nice well selected team in c2design, and a few ppl in c2power. C2power has more problems to take care as it is a start up, so I have to go after and check things on my own, as contact ppl and search forums.
I am thinking in long terms, and willing to keep service and production quality as we grow.
ok no more OT I check those ratios...

Thanks c2gas. You are the greatest. I think I'm going to change the banner on my windshield to c2power just because you have been such a big help.

Not saying TRD ones are bad, but if 200mph is really your goal.. if you tried it with stock you would probably end up with one screwed up celica and six feet under.

Oh, okay. Yeah I can't leave anything stock on my car. Sometimes I'll take stock parts off and replace it with an aftermarket part even if I didn't need it. Drives my wife nuts.

LOL thx man!

You're welcome, but I wasn't kidding. Send me a windshield banner and I will advertise your shop this next car show season.
Right now I have a Toyota Racing Development banner, but TRD sure as hell hasn't done anything nice for me, so I'll take it off and put yours up.

your problem is gearing

with the celicas final drive and 6th gear ratio its not going to be possible to do 200mph

you would need a completely new tranny and also new aero dynamics to reach 200mph safely,

this task is not something easy nor is it cheap. we are talking like 20+grand.

and when your talking about that much moolah your better off buying a 93 + tt supra and uprading the turbo and removing the speed governor and you'll get your 200mph.

With our tranny in a GT at 6000rm you would reach 250km/h (156mph) so you would have to run up almost to 8000rpm to reach 200mph. Well it is possible but not that simple.

^^^^ sounds like a project that would have to be run at bonneville or something...or he could go with a bigger turbo like I suggested to you , GAS...it would be overkill for daily driving, but not for his goal...also, If I ever get the money, rest assured I'm coming your way for some wild things...I commend you again for your awesome attention to detail in your services, and devotion to our community.

ERIC...the other thing you could do is to get a different tranny altogether that has wilder gearing and have a sandwich adapter plate fabricated to mate it to the 1zz block... ...kind of like the rear wheel drive kit cars...a chevy 350 v8 with a porsche g50/50 tranny is possible only through a sandwich plate...they have also come up with a plate for the chevy 350 to be mated to the getrag 6 speed that is used in the supra...its absolutely crazy, but it would be an option if you are looking at this goal...you'd just have to find a tranny that would fit and work...and get some serious aerodynamics into your body

Thanks Illusive. 20 grand? No problem. What can I get for 30 grand? I'm kidding of course.
I already spent the 6k on the turbo which will be done next month. Next year I will get the race engine from MWR for 5k. Then the tranny from c2gas for 4k.
15k is a lot to make a Celica fast, but that's what I want. One badass Celica. Sound good?

^^^^^^ crazy ass...you know I'm gonna have to come to texas for that right...I just got off the phone with MWR, and I have plans now too...ehehehehehehehehehe

c2gas,
Thank you very much. When you say it won't be that simple, do mean that I am forgetting something other than what I have planned already? What else will I need?

Hell yes Steve! Me and you buddy. 200 mph on the open freeway through Texas. I'll race you from Dallas to SA.

Illusive,
I forgot to metion about the aero dynamics. I'm hoping the APR kit is as good as they say it is. What do you think, will it handle 200 mph?

Steve,
Wouldn't you say the c2power tranny will do the job?

Also, tell me MWR said. What do you have planned?