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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 439
Senior Member 2004 Toyota Celica
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Senior Member
2004 Toyota Celica
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 439 |
I was comparing different car in our class and almost every car kills us in torque, whats up with that ![thumbsdown thumbsdown](https://celicahobby.com/forums/images/graemlins/celica/thumbsdown.gif)
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 111
Member 2001 Toyota Celica
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Member
2001 Toyota Celica
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 111 |
Toyota wanted to reinforce the "looks fast" motto. ![wtf wtf](https://celicahobby.com/forums/images/graemlins/celica/wtf.gif)
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 419
Senior Member 2003 Toyota Celica GT
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Senior Member
2003 Toyota Celica GT
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 419 |
correct me someone if I'm wrong, but isn't because its a high revving engine and lower revs = more torque
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,374 Likes: 1
Specialist 2002 Toyota Celica
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Specialist
2002 Toyota Celica
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,374 Likes: 1 |
"in our class"? what do you mean by that? Relative to cars in OTHER classes, it's just basic automotive technology. What else do you expect from a N/A 1.8 L 4-cylinder? The problem also lies in the stock ecu programming. Get a PowerFC and you probably won't be complaining about low-end torque. I can attest to this personally, and here is the dyno-testing to back up that statement: http://monkeywrenchracing.com/mwr_celica_gts.html
I get my kicks on EC.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 466
Senior Member 2004 Toyota Celica
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Senior Member
2004 Toyota Celica
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 466 |
I was reading that report, and holy crap, they gained 18 ft.lbs of torque from 2500rpm to 3500rpm?! Wow, and then a solid 12 from 4000-6000rpm. Damn I wish I could use a Power-FC ![frown frown](https://celicahobby.com/forums/images/graemlins/celica/frown.gif) To answer the original question is because of displacement. You can't make torque without displacement. Being a 1.8L only, you can only make so much naturally. High HP can be made, but torque will suffer.
Last edited by GTS_Rosh; Feb 16, 2005 2:20pm.
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Posts: 304
Member 2002 Volkswagon Jetta GLS
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Member
2002 Volkswagon Jetta GLS
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 304 |
![smile smile](https://celicahobby.com/forums/images/graemlins/celica/smile.gif) Jetta = torque monster hehe
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Metal Storm 2040 2000 Toyota Celica
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Metal Storm 2040
2000 Toyota Celica
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,694 |
![smile smile](https://celicahobby.com/forums/images/graemlins/celica/smile.gif) Jetta = torque monster hehe Jetta= "Get off the line then go nowhere"
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 304
Member 2002 Volkswagon Jetta GLS
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Member
2002 Volkswagon Jetta GLS
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 304 |
![smile smile](https://celicahobby.com/forums/images/graemlins/celica/smile.gif) Jetta = torque monster hehe Jetta= "Get off the line then go nowhere" get's off the line and through 2nd gear it's nice hehe... lol so... i like the races short and sweet lol
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 380
Member 2003 Toyota Celica GT
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Member
2003 Toyota Celica GT
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 380 |
![smile smile](https://celicahobby.com/forums/images/graemlins/celica/smile.gif) Jetta = torque monster hehe had one and hos right... the jetta kicks ass ![grin grin](https://celicahobby.com/forums/images/graemlins/celica/grin.gif)
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,174
Specialist 2001 Toyota Celica GT
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Specialist
2001 Toyota Celica GT
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,174 |
VW's are good for torque. my sister's cabrio has 115 hp, but 125 torque that kicks in at 2500 or so rpms. but it's still slow. anyway, a light car doesn't need much torque.
-Combatc87- / -SgT._BiLkO-
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daman 2000 Toyota Celica GT
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daman
2000 Toyota Celica GT
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,869 |
because toyota sucked at making an engine for our car
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,093
Black Sheep 2000 Toyota Celica GT
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Black Sheep
2000 Toyota Celica GT
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,093 |
i cant even answer this question.
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 82
Member 2000 Toyota Celica
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Member
2000 Toyota Celica
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 82 |
its a high revving engine and lower revs = more torque
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 528
Senior Member 2001 Toyota Celica GT
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Senior Member
2001 Toyota Celica GT
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 528 |
Below 4K, our engines are set up for economy...I don't have time to look but I'm sure our engines make similar torque below 4K as other economy engines our size...
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,374 Likes: 1
Specialist 2002 Toyota Celica
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Specialist
2002 Toyota Celica
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,374 Likes: 1 |
the question has been answered ![wave wave](https://celicahobby.com/forums/images/graemlins/celica/wave.gif)
I get my kicks on EC.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 47
Member 2000 Toyota Celica GT
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Member
2000 Toyota Celica GT
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 47 |
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,093
Black Sheep 2000 Toyota Celica GT
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Black Sheep
2000 Toyota Celica GT
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,093 |
our cars dont really need torque, our cars werent really made for drag, what we got is a sexy suspenstion for nice womenly curves, thats where our true potential is.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,374 Likes: 1
Specialist 2002 Toyota Celica
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Specialist
2002 Toyota Celica
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,374 Likes: 1 |
we don't need torque? strange statement to me... all performance cars can use more torque whether on the street or track. so what you're saying is all low displacement 4 cylinder sports cars don't need torque because they shouldn't be racing period? well they are racing and they are kicking butt, even on the drag strip. so you say a V8 can do it cheaper? if you just want speed get a 2000 lb 90's civic hatch, drop a GSR motor in etc, turbo, and kick butt.
To V8 guys who say "There is no replacement for displacement": Sport compact guys say "wrong, F/I."
I get my kicks on EC.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 439
Senior Member 2004 Toyota Celica
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Senior Member
2004 Toyota Celica
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 439 |
Thank you everyone for you imput, that Power FC is awesome I think I might have to get that ![thumbsup thumbsup](https://celicahobby.com/forums/images/graemlins/celica/thumbsup.gif) . I was compareing it to other 1.8's and some had more torque like the lancer, sentra, I wish we had the engine of the s2000 that would be sweet ![spineyes spineyes](https://celicahobby.com/forums/images/graemlins/celica/spineyes.gif)
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 574
Senior Member 2000 Toyota Celica
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Senior Member
2000 Toyota Celica
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 574 |
lose graciously and win humbly
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,374 Likes: 1
Specialist 2002 Toyota Celica
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Specialist
2002 Toyota Celica
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,374 Likes: 1 |
Thank you everyone for you imput, that Power FC is awesome I think I might have to get that ![thumbsup thumbsup](https://celicahobby.com/forums/images/graemlins/celica/thumbsup.gif) . I was compareing it to other 1.8's and some had more torque like the lancer, sentra, I wish we had the engine of the s2000 that would be sweet ![spineyes spineyes](https://celicahobby.com/forums/images/graemlins/celica/spineyes.gif) I noticed you have a GT, and actually the GT makes about the same torque as the GTS just lower, so that's our stronger stock candidate for comparison. A GTS with a PowerFC is a different story. The 1.8 L GT has more torque than the lancer 2.0 (lol) and a little less torque than the sentra 1.8 L. Lancer 2.0 L (ES or OZ rally): 130 hp 120 lb-ft @ 4250 rpm http://www.mitsubishimotors.com/MMSA/jsp/lancer/features_specs.jsp?t=allSentra 1.8 L 126 hp 129 lb-ft @ 2400 rpm http://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/ModelSpecifications/0,,120013||,00.htmlCelica GT 1.8 L 140 hp 125 lb-ft @ 4200 rpm the lower "low-end" torque brother for comparison: Celica GTS 1.8 L w/ PowerFC + Injen CAI MWR results, approximate crank numbers: 197 hp 120 lb-ft at 3000 rpm 125 lb-ft at 4000 rpm -------------------- So in conclusion, the lancer is nothing to worry about, but the sentra is a bit better since the peak torque comes on at 2400 rpm compared to the GT at 4200 rpm. That could be the result of a more aggressively tuned ECU in the sentra, and nothing that probably can't be fixed with a PowerFC for the GT.
I get my kicks on EC.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,374 Likes: 1
Specialist 2002 Toyota Celica
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Specialist
2002 Toyota Celica
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,374 Likes: 1 |
note that the Injen CAI at least for the GTS is a relatively bad low-end intake compared to AEM, TPR.
I get my kicks on EC.
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,174
Specialist 2001 Toyota Celica GT
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Specialist
2001 Toyota Celica GT
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,174 |
the sentra may have more low end power, but that comes at aprice, and that price is high end horsepower. it's the same deal with VW's. they can get going and can pass in normal driving, but try and get 'em going in the high revs and you're going nowhere fast.
-Combatc87- / -SgT._BiLkO-
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,478 Likes: 1
Specialist 2003 Toyota Celica
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Specialist
2003 Toyota Celica
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,478 Likes: 1 |
piss on torque.. give me my high revvin gts anyday.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 439
Senior Member 2004 Toyota Celica
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Senior Member
2004 Toyota Celica
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 439 |
piss on torque.. give me my high revvin gts anyday. yeah, but dont you need torque to get the vehicle going. HP and torque go hand and hand correct.
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,971
Boobie Vision 2000 Toyota Celica
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Boobie Vision
2000 Toyota Celica
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,971 |
cool thread!! and yes the question has been answered!
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,744
CF Connoisseur 2004 Toyota Celica
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CF Connoisseur
2004 Toyota Celica
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,744 |
yea i learnd a bit ![smile smile](https://celicahobby.com/forums/images/graemlins/celica/smile.gif)
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,374 Likes: 1
Specialist 2002 Toyota Celica
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Specialist
2002 Toyota Celica
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,374 Likes: 1 |
piss on torque.. give me my high revvin gts anyday. yeah, but dont you need torque to get the vehicle going. HP and torque go hand and hand correct. https://celicahobby.com/ubbthrea...5052#1953486649this is the other torque thread currently on this forum page. If you scroll down in that thread, you'll see my torque and hp explanation post.
I get my kicks on EC.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 439
Senior Member 2004 Toyota Celica
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Senior Member
2004 Toyota Celica
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 439 |
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,449
Specialist 2003 Toyota Celica
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Specialist
2003 Toyota Celica
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,449 |
i actually like the GTS torque line... all the torque pretty much comes out at every rpm...
i think this is a very nice engine that Yamaha has built. a very very good one actually...
the actual torqueless cars are those civics...
I am a HID Maniac!!
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 233
Member 2004 Toyota Celica
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Member
2004 Toyota Celica
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 233 |
ya...i love my GTS...just wish i had a little more torque...
2004 AUTO GT-S............
"I may go slow.....but i look fucking good doing it...."
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 466
Senior Member 2004 Toyota Celica
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Senior Member
2004 Toyota Celica
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 466 |
i actually like the GTS torque line... all the torque pretty much comes out at every rpm...
i think this is a very nice engine that Yamaha has built. a very very good one actually...
the actual torqueless cars are those civics... Totally, if you wanna talk torqueless cars, the civic takes the cake. 1.7L of displacement putting out 127HP and 114ft lbs of torque, pushing just over 2500lbs of weight. Or worse with the non-VTEC engine with 110ft lbs of torque ![thumbsdown thumbsdown](https://celicahobby.com/forums/images/graemlins/celica/thumbsdown.gif)
Last edited by GTS_Rosh; Feb 18, 2005 11:08am.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 104
Member 2004 Toyota Celica
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Member
2004 Toyota Celica
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 104 |
because toyota sucked at making an engine for our car Dude you dumbass. The Lotus Elise uses the 2ZZ, if that doesn't symbolize how fucking bad ass our motor is, than nothing ever will.
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,365 Likes: 1
Caleb 2000 Toyota Celica
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Caleb
2000 Toyota Celica
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,365 Likes: 1 |
^^ the lotus elise engine sucks, bro. its the lotus carbon fiber body & rwd setup that makes the lotus a nice car.
and yamaha makes the 2zz engine, not toyota.
and our engines have such low torque because we have such low-displacement engines. as a rule of thumb, the more displacement you have, the more torque you have...everything else remaining equal.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 439
Senior Member 2004 Toyota Celica
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Senior Member
2004 Toyota Celica
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 439 |
^^ the lotus elise engine sucks, bro. its the lotus carbon fiber body & rwd setup that makes the lotus a nice car.
and yamaha makes the 2zz engine, not toyota.
and our engines have such low torque because we have such low-displacement engines. as a rule of thumb, the more displacement you have, the more torque you have...everything else remaining equal. So how much torque and HP would I gain if I bored the engine out to a 2.0 liter with the 12.1 pistons from MWR and new cams from crower ![spineyes spineyes](https://celicahobby.com/forums/images/graemlins/celica/spineyes.gif)
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